What cuts better than a Denka?

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Greenbriel said:
I'm waiting for the end of a looong saga to get my mitts on a 240 Denka with a red lacquer Wa handle. I'll post the whole story if/hopefully when it gets here. Interesting and amazing customer service tale.

The first one I had was a dog. Went through carrots like frozen butter. Also had a flaw in the spine with a bit of white plastic in it. I'm hopeful the next one lives up to the hype.

So until that day, my most used/best cutters are Birgersson, Spåre, Kip, anything Watoyama and Yoshi SKD (dear god I love how that thing cuts). I have multiples of all except the Kip, and they are each as good as the next.

Edit: here's what I'm waiting for (pre-notch cutting and sharpening). Had a choice of (wa) handle and couldn't resist the urushi.
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Following up my own post - my Denka arrived a couple of months ago and I absolutely love it. Night and day vs. the first one. It cuts amazingly well and I get the toothy description. It's not quite that but I can't describe it any better. As others, I have knives that slide through product a *little* bit more effortlessly (Watanabe, Toyama, Yoshi), but this is the knife I reach for the most these days. I just enjoy the hell out of the thing. Feels a lot smaller than a 240 in use, too.

Here's a photo and I did post the saga with a load more pics over here:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/the-customer-service-thread.64911/
1686333967905.png
 
Greenbriel said:
Following up my own post - my Denka arrived a couple of months ago and I absolutely love it. Night and day vs. the first one. It cuts amazingly well and I get the toothy description. It's not quite that but I can't describe it any better. As others, I have knives that slide through product a *little* bit more effortlessly (Watanabe, Toyama, Yoshi), but this is the knife I reach for the most these days. I just enjoy the hell out of the thing. Feels a lot smaller than a 240 in use, too.

Here's a photo and I did post the saga with a load more pics over here:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/the-customer-service-thread.64911/
View attachment 247617
Click to expand...
That's hot.
 
Thanks guys much appreciated!!

I honestly surprised myself picking the handle, but when my guy at TF showed me the options and told me they had an urushi specialist in-house, I couldn't resist. You definitely don't see them often. I was worried it might be slippy in use but it's not in the least.
 
Greenbriel said:
Thanks guys much appreciated!!

I honestly surprised myself picking the handle, but when my guy at TF showed me the options and told me they had an urushi specialist in-house, I couldn't resist. You definitely don't see them often. I was worried it might be slippy in use but it's not in the least.
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I'm truly envious.
 
Greenbriel said:
Following up my own post - my Denka arrived a couple of months ago and I absolutely love it. Night and day vs. the first one. It cuts amazingly well and I get the toothy description. It's not quite that but I can't describe it any better. As others, I have knives that slide through product a *little* bit more effortlessly (Watanabe, Toyama, Yoshi), but this is the knife I reach for the most these days. I just enjoy the hell out of the thing. Feels a lot smaller than a 240 in use, too.

Here's a photo and I did post the saga with a load more pics over here:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/the-customer-service-thread.64911/
View attachment 247617
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. When you get a hold of a well done Denka, it really is one of the best knives in the world.
 
I have a 210 and 240, both with wa handles that i have swapped out for some customs (shocker) My 270 is yo handled (also rehandled, also a shocker) The stock wa handles on my 210 and 240's made both knives fairly forward balanced. The were both ho and horn, so very lightweight. The replacement handles are stabilized burl and Tassie blackwood, and the additional density moved than balance points back to my pinch grip, The 270 continues to be very blade heavy, even with the replacement handle, not uncomfortably so, it remains comfortable to use. They all cut great, though all display some degree of wabi-sabi.

I am sure the 240 wouldnt be too much knife for you. The bigger consideration is the size of your cutting board. Unless you are a pro cook, or have a pro cook sized board to work with, a 210 will let you enjoy the "Denka experience" and it is a big enough knife to handle most home cook demands
 
birdsfan said:
I was wondering about the Y. Tanaka Blue and AS. I have only tried his white#2. It takes a great edge pretty, but doesnt hold it overly long, like most white. Also, I found this example on the thinner, lighter side. Are the blue#1 any stouter?
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Not usually for YT. Let me know if you want to try any and I can run one up to you
 
birdsfan said:
I have a 210 and 240, both with wa handles that i have swapped out for some customs (shocker) My 270 is yo handled (also rehandled, also a shocker) The stock wa handles on my 210 and 240's made both knives fairly forward balanced. The were both ho and horn, so very lightweight. The replacement handles are stabilized burl and Tassie blackwood, and the additional density moved than balance points back to my pinch grip, The 270 continues to be very blade heavy, even with the replacement handle, not uncomfortably so, it remains comfortable to use. They all cut great, though all display some degree of wabi-sabi.

I am sure the 240 wouldnt be too much knife for you. The bigger consideration is the size of your cutting board. Unless you are a pro cook, or have a pro cook sized board to work with, a 210 will let you enjoy the "Denka experience" and it is a big enough knife to handle most home cook demands
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Did you have to thin them before they were fully functional? I pretty much had to with my yo 210, it was a wedge monster ootb.
 
birdsfan said:
I have a 210 and 240, both with wa handles that i have swapped out for some customs (shocker) My 270 is yo handled (also rehandled, also a shocker) The stock wa handles on my 210 and 240's made both knives fairly forward balanced. The were both ho and horn, so very lightweight. The replacement handles are stabilized burl and Tassie blackwood, and the additional density moved than balance points back to my pinch grip, The 270 continues to be very blade heavy, even with the replacement handle, not uncomfortably so, it remains comfortable to use. They all cut great, though all display some degree of wabi-sabi.

I am sure the 240 wouldnt be too much knife for you. The bigger consideration is the size of your cutting board. Unless you are a pro cook, or have a pro cook sized board to work with, a 210 will let you enjoy the "Denka experience" and it is a big enough knife to handle most home cook demands
Click to expand...
As a home cook that used my 210 exclusively for One Knife April, I concur, it can do anything
 
I lived with a 210 Wustof for many years. I use 210's plenty for small jobs. But even as a home cook, I'd really rather have to do without bigger knives.
 
The 210 was thin when I got it, and it was immediately fabulous. The 240 was purchased used and had seen a whole lot of work before I got it, so I can't speak at all about its original condition. The yo-handled 270 could use a little thinning of the shoulders to really make it sing, but it performs really well as it is, especially for the times when I need a 270 when a produce tractor is necessary.
 
Who are the Denka experts?
Buy or no buy?
51.5 mm heel.
 

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blokey said:
Lath martensite and plate Martensite, personally I assume due to the fall off behavior of lath martensite (needle like structure) it gives the knife more agressive edge for longer time while plate martensite just become smoother and rounded.
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A quick elaboration before I forget—

Consider a U shaped chip. In some knives that I’ve seen under the scope, the bottom of the U is wide, as though you had used a tiny ice cream scoop to curl out the chip.

In the Denka I just looked at, the bottom of the U remains relatively keen: as though you had sharpened only the chip area to create a tiny low spot / recurve / swale, but with a still-sharp apex that just happens to be at the bottom of the U.

Could this chipping behaviour be explained by plate vs lath martensite? Maybe this is the same mechanism that explains this:
stringer said:
After a few thousand pounds the edge would look like a sharks mouth but it will cut the eggplant skin easily.
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stringer said:
Despite all those chips, the Watanabe was still sharp enough to shave.
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Pics at
Daily microscope pics
 
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Bought the denka!!
Really loving it so far. Next to the jiro a keeper. its so rustic that i dont baby it at all. will thin and remove low spots as i go. currently enjoying worn out atoma +uchi and repeat. i learn so much from that. makes scratch patterm and grind very visible and the feedback from that is perfect.
 
So my thoughts on my 210 Yo Denka Gyuto.

It's one of the thinnest, stiffest, toughest, sharpest and powerful blades I have tried (and still own). It also lacks food release the ability to rock chop with it's low tip.

So I tested out 50 knives between my friends collection and mine that included many of the names already listed and more expensive than the Denka. Yet its performance was unmatched on hard veg e.g. Large carrots and butternut squash.

The Denka is the reason I love Aogami Super steel.

Interestingly, the only knife that equals the Denka in performance is a thin chinese vegetable cleaver. But the cleaver has a limited tip, blunts faster and food release is worse and relies too heavily on power by its height. The Denka achieves all of this at half the height!

So these are my theories to it's performance,
1. Thinness due to hollow grind (and hence the poor food release)
2. Stiffness due to San Mai weld forged (not lamented steel)
3. Sharpness due to High HRC
4. Tough Edge retention due to Aogami Super steel
5. Power due to slighty increased blade height

So when I rotate between other knives, I have better rock choppers (Hiromoto honyaki) , better food release knives (Kiyoshi Kato WH Nakiri) and more finely finished slicers (Ittetsu Ikeda/Oni honyaki).

There is no holy grail knife. The Denka does fulfill the Specialist performance knife on tough vegetables role and is fun to sharpen and chop!

But, I have two Kiri Cleavers to try out soon so perhaps the Denka can be equalled!

We are lucky to have great choices in different knives! I absolutely love my Denka but only for it's specialist role.
 
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fatboylim said:
So my thoughts on my 210 Yo Denka Gyuto.

It's one of the thinnest, stiffest, toughest, sharpest and powerful blades I have tried (and still own). It's also lacks food release the ability to rock chop with it's low tip.

So I tested out 50 knives between my friends collection and mine that included many of the names already listed and more expensive that the Denka. Yet its performance was unmatched on hard veg e.g. Large carrots and butternut squash.

The Denka is the reason I love Aogami Super steel.

Interestingly, the only knife that equals the Denka in performance is a thin chinese vegetable cleaver. But the cleaver has a limited tip, blunts faster and food release is worse and relies too heavily on power by its height. The Denka achieves all of this at half the height!

So these are my theories to it's performance,
1. Thinness due to hollow grind (and hence the poor food release)
2. Stiffness due to San Mai weld forged (not lamented steel)
3. Sharpness due to High HRC
4. Tough Edge retention due to Aogami Super steel
5. Power due to slighty increased blade height

So when I rotate between other knives, I have better rock choppers (Hiromoto honyaki) , better food release knives (Kiyoshi Kato WH Nakiri) and more finely finished slicers (Ittetsu Ikeda/Oni honyaki).

There is no holy grail knife. The Denka does fulfill the Specialist performance knife on tough vegetables role and is fun to sharpen and chop!

But, I have two Kiri Cleavers to try out soon so perhaps the Denka can be equalled!

We are lucky to have great choices in different knives! I absolutely love my Denka but only for it's specialist role.
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great writeup!

do you have any other favorites for hard veggies, maybe 2nd and 3rd place behind the Denka? I'm always looking for the best knife for that...
 
Choppin said:
great writeup!

do you have any other favorites for hard veggies, maybe 2nd and 3rd place behind the Denka? I'm always looking for the best knife for that...
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I've not found one yet, but I would suspect it will be Aogami Super for the toughness. That's why I'm trying out an AS kiri cleaver!

I think AS has the toughness to be thin enough for dense vegetables, assuming a good heat treatment and stiffness!

To answer your question, if I didn't have the Denka, a thin chinese vegetable slicing cleaver with good steel would be my next choice, currently my Masahiro TX-101 or Tx-104! Power and thinness but not quite the sharpness of the Denka. But it's a cheaper knife!

Hopefully the tinker tank in AS meets the challenge.
 
shobudonnie said:
What about buttercup squash and sweet potatoes? Is you also recommend ginga and masamoto ks for those?
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"Softer" lasers are the perfect tool for hard veggies. And ginga/ks at 60-62 are classic examples. A denka would work great too. But less margin for error for torque fracture than with a lower HRC.
 
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stringer said:
"Softer" lasers are the perfect tool for hard veggies. And ginga/ks at 60-62 are classic examples. A denka would work great too. But less margin for error for torque fracture than with a higher HRC.
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In that example didn’t you rather mean « less margin…than with a [lower] HRC »?
 
I’ve never experienced a denka but my best performer would be my Yorokobi Sld 230mm, I have thinned it out a little myself and it’s amazing how much it can improve with just a little thinning. It’s my best by far, beating my yoshikanes and myojins by a considerable margin it also doesn’t feel that chippy considering how well it preforms, I have thinner blades that preform worse.
 
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