Another sujihiki recommendation thread

[UHguy]

Hello fellow knife enthusiasts. I'm looking to add a sujihiki to my bag of tools and could use a little help. Ideally I would like one that I can use for both raw and cooked (potentially crusty) proteins. I prefer a Japanese handle, and something that is 270mm in length. I would say the upper end of my budget is $600, but I've been looking at things like a Yoshikane SKD or a Yoshimi Kato in Aogami Super. Open to just about anything in terms of steal. Thanks in advance!

 

[Cliff]

I've heard Sukenari Hap40 is tough and will hold a toothy edge forever but haven't tried it. I have also heard great things about Heiji's SKD.

From my knives, I love Shiro Kamo's R2 -- should be similar to Kato. I don't know how the grind on the Yoshi suji is, but my knives in that line are extremely thin behind the edge, and I'd worry about crusty proteins.

 

[Jovidah]

I'm assuming the main purpose is slicing, and not filleting / trimming?
In that case based on my very limited experience you want something that's on the heavier and stiffer side.
Regarding crusty, my preliminary conclusion is that lower grit stone finish works better than high grit polish.

My main suji is a Mazaki... it's on the thicker, stiffer and heavier side so in that regard it really delivers. But it's also shirogami (mediocre edge retention) and has very reactive cladding. Other than that it's awesome, but if I could exchange it for a monosteel version in a better steel I would.

 

[Cliff]

On second thought, with the budget, you're pretty close to two good sujis: One heftier one for roasts and a laser for raw fish and fillet work. I love Ashi for the latter.

 

[UHguy]

I'm assuming the main purpose is slicing, and not filleting / trimming?
In that case based on my very limited experience you want something that's on the heavier and stiffer side.
Regarding crusty, my preliminary conclusion is that lower grit stone finish works better than high grit polish.

My main suji is a Mazaki... it's on the thicker, stiffer and heavier side so in that regard it really delivers. But it's also shirogami (mediocre edge retention) and has very reactive cladding. Other than that it's awesome, but if I could exchange it for a monosteel version in a better steel I would.

Correct, slicing. I have other things for filleting/trimming.

The thing I'll use it the least is for especially crusty proteins, but I did want to mention it as it is at least a consideration.

 

[Cliff]

Correct, slicing. I have other things for filleting/trimming.

The thing I'll use it the least is for especially crusty proteins, but I did want to mention it as it is at least a consideration.

What do you use for those tasks?

I love my 300mm Ashi Ginga as an all-around slicer, but if I were a pro looking for something to slice cooked protein I would go either for the Sukenari and the edge retention or Heiji, for a hefty wide-bevel in semi-stainless. Or, for a more affordable but also excellent, I love Moritaka's version of AS.

 

[UHguy]

What do you use for those tasks?

I love my 300mm Ashi Ginga as an all-around slicer, but if I were a pro looking for something to slice cooked protein I would go either for the Sukenari and the edge retention or Heiji, for a hefty wide-bevel in semi-stainless. Or, for a more affordable but also excellent, I love Moritaka's version of AS.

I don’t do much filleting to be totally honest, but I have an older fillet knife that does the job.

A Heiji is something that interested me, but I wasn’t sure about the prospects of waiting 4 months to get one. I’ll take a look at the others mentioned. Thank you

 

[AT5760]

Will this be for home or professional use?

 

[DitmasPork]

Hello fellow knife enthusiasts. I'm looking to add a sujihiki to my bag of tools and could use a little help. Ideally I would like one that I can use for both raw and cooked (potentially crusty) proteins. I prefer a Japanese handle, and something that is 270mm in length. I would say the upper end of my budget is $600, but I've been looking at things like a Yoshikane SKD or a Yoshimi Kato in Aogami Super. Open to just about anything in terms of steal. Thanks in advance!

Would this be your first suji? If so, the $600 budget might be overkill unless confident about your personal preferences IMHO. A suji in the $250–$350 range to figure out what's in your wheelhouse—to find out if you like heavier, lighter, tall, short, stainless, carbon, machi or machi-less, flat profile or not, length, etc.

Yoshimi Katoh is a good reasonably priced blade—not a bad starting point.

Below, some sujis, all have their own characteristics:

 

[UHguy]

Would this be your first suji? If so, the $600 budget might be overkill unless confident about your personal preferences IMHO. A suji in the $250–$350 range to figure out what's in your wheelhouse—to find out if you like heavier, lighter, tall, short, stainless, carbon, machi or machi-less, flat profile or not, length, etc.

Yoshimi Katoh is a good reasonably priced blade—not a bad starting point.

Below, some sujis, all have their own characteristics:
View attachment 221271

Lovely collection. This would be my first Sujihiki, yes. I’ll keep that in mind certainly.

 

[UHguy]

Will this be for home or professional use?

I’m a home cook.

 

[daveb]

I'm a little suji stupid, 6 or 7 laying about, not including a couple cimitars and Euro "slicers".

Will offer that a frequently overlooked characteristics is weight. A 270mm is a very good length, 180+ grams is a good weight - especially for your cooked protein application. My favorites for all kinds of home and pro use weigh in at over 200gr. To get there will use most if not all of your budget.

A mid priced favorite of mine is (was) a Heiji carbon. Another is a Watanabe "Pro". Both should be avail at the upper end of your range from the respective makers My all time favorite is an HSC in ZWear ubt that will require reaching a little deeper.

 

[AT5760]

If you are ok with a reactive knife, then this would be a great option: WTS - Mazaki 270 (w2) sujihiki

 

[Heckel7302]

If you are ok with a reactive knife, then this would be a great option: WTS - Mazaki 270 (w2) sujihiki

Agreed. @UHguy you should buy this. Great knife, great price. I love my Mazaki suji.

 

[GorillaGrunt]

Would this be your first suji? If so, the $600 budget might be overkill unless confident about your personal preferences IMHO. A suji in the $250–$350 range to figure out what's in your wheelhouse—to find out if you like heavier, lighter, tall, short, stainless, carbon, machi or machi-less, flat profile or not, length, etc.

Yoshimi Katoh is a good reasonably priced blade—not a bad starting point.

Below, some sujis, all have their own characteristics:
View attachment 221271

Is the first one on the left one of the Hinoura White 1 from i think JCK? and I’m blanking on the rightmost one too

 

[GorillaGrunt]

For me stiffness is key here. It’s simply my technique i think more than any objective lesson, but I prefer the stiffer sujis. That can come either from thickness, at the spine or through the grind, or from height. So the Hinoura is narrow but robust while the Shiro Kamo is thin but tall and neither is too flexy for me.

Steel wise for sliders I like steels with a naturally bitey edge. SLD, YXR7, Blue Super, Ginsan, both Heiji steels. watanabe, toyama, Heiji, Hinoura, Mazaki, Shiro Kamo are all good bets. I’m sure some flavor of Y Tanaka in Blue 1 will do you just dandy too.

 

[Koop]

Check out JCK - they have a nice selection of sujis ranging price from $200 to $700 in a variety of steels.

 

[DitmasPork]

Is the first one on the left one of the Hinoura White 1 from i think JCK? and I’m blanking on the rightmost one too

First on left is a Yanick Puig; far right is Yoshikazu Tanaka. I do have a M. Hinoura, w2, gyuto from JKI.

 

[Se1ryu]

Ashi Gingga (swedish stainless steel) sujihiki works great if you looking for a thin knife for slicing. For carving roast beef or something just get the one with thick spine like Makoto Kurosaki suji or a thin but stiff blade. I prefer thinner blade for suji.

 

[mengwong]

Help me answer this question… suppose you rock up at someone’s Christmas / Thanksgiving dinner and they’re about to carve the ribeye roast with a flat slicer – it’s quite sharp enough and looks like this:

So naturally you say, wait, wait, and you run out to your car and open the trunk, basically a scene from an action movie except it’s kitchen knives instead of long guns, and you run back in the house excitedly waving a 335mm sujihiki from @MSicardCutlery.

You slice the roast while the rest of the guests watch in terrified silence. Eventually someone ventures to ask “ok but what’s the difference really between the slicer and the carver? Why would you prefer one over the other? Same length, same sharpness, works the same as far as I can tell. But 10x price difference. Is it a stiffness thing?”

 

[blokey]

Help me answer this question… suppose you rock up at someone’s Christmas / Thanksgiving dinner and they’re about to carve the ribeye roast with their flat slicer – it’s quite sharp enough and looks like this:
View attachment 221390
So naturally you say, wait, wait, and you run out to your car and open the trunk, basically a scene from an action movie except it’s kitchen knives instead of long guns, and you run back in the house excitedly waving a 335mm sujihiki from @MSicardCutlery.

View attachment 221391

You slice the roast while the rest of the guests watch in terrified silence. Eventually someone ventures to ask “ok but what’s the difference really between the slicer and the carver? Why would you prefer one over the other? Same length, same sharpness, works the same as far as I can tell. But 10x price difference. Is it a stiffness thing?”

You can poke the one who asked with a suji

 

[user 50275]

I only own one Sujihiki so take that for what it is.

The JNS Tanaka 270 coming in at 263mm and only 112g in Aogami 1.
Steel takes a wicked edge. Easy HHT-3 to HHT-4.
I really like the laser aspect of it but i do mostly fileting, trimming and finer dicing work for Thai food. Laab and other stuff.

For that purpose its amazing. Comes in at 635€
Other dealer have a Tanaka Suji with different grinds (heavier). But as daveb and others stated maybe dont go overboard with the first suji price wise like i did

 

[DitmasPork]

Help me answer this question… suppose you rock up at someone’s Christmas / Thanksgiving dinner and they’re about to carve the ribeye roast with a flat slicer – it’s quite sharp enough and looks like this:
View attachment 221390
So naturally you say, wait, wait, and you run out to your car and open the trunk, basically a scene from an action movie except it’s kitchen knives instead of long guns, and you run back in the house excitedly waving a 335mm sujihiki from @MSicardCutlery.

View attachment 221391

You slice the roast while the rest of the guests watch in terrified silence. Eventually someone ventures to ask “ok but what’s the difference really between the slicer and the carver? Why would you prefer one over the other? Same length, same sharpness, works the same as far as I can tell. But 10x price difference. Is it a stiffness thing?”

Apples & Oranges. Both are capable slicers—personal preference, design, aesthetics, bling factor, and how much you wanna spend the main differences.

 

[MSicardCutlery]

"Is it a stiffness thing?”

Non knife related maybe, but also not non knife related

 

[btbyrd]

Help me answer this question… "ok but what’s the difference really between the slicer and the carver? Why would you prefer one over the other? Same length, same sharpness, works the same as far as I can tell. But 10x price difference. Is it a stiffness thing?”

I have the Victorinox version of that NSF granton slicer. I also have used a few nice sujis. Sujis vary a lot, so the answer is going to depend on the knife in question. One thing that is hard to deny is how good those Vic slicers are at slicing very thin uniform slices, like paper thin bits of roast beef or turkey breast for sandwiches. They're thin, low profile, and grantoned and somehow they manage to outcut all the suji's I've owned for that particular task.

But the big thing that these cheaper slicers lack are the mass and stiffness to make the knife an authoritative cutter. A nice stiff 300mm suji will typically have enough weight and forward balance to it to make it want to fall through food. This forward balance combined with a stiff blade creates a blade that wants to cut and actually does some of the work for you. And this makes it much better than the NSF slicers at portioning large raw cuts of meat. MUCH better.

For the task of carving a ribeye roast on Christmas, neither knife really has an edge over the other in terms of performance. The experience of using them will be different, but slicing prime rib is a relatively straightforward job that doesn't require a special knife. The experience of using the NSF slicer will be different from using the more expensive knife. The latter will be more fun. It will mostly do the job for you, and it will look good doing it. It will be easier to sharpen and it will hold its edge longer. And it will have been made by an artisan blacksmith.

Those aren't insignificant differences. They just don't matter a lot when it comes to slicing the Christmas roast. *Unless you're trying to do paper thin slices for leftover sandwiches.

 

[Jovidah]

Yeah agreed on the weight / stiffness part. Which is also what sets some of the pricier sujihikis apart from the cheap stuff like Fujiwaras.
Though you could make the argument that a long gyuto would work just as well for these kind of 'big thick slices'. I have yet to notice the drag difference.

 

[chefwp]

On second thought, with the budget, you're pretty close to two good sujis: One heftier one for roasts and a laser for raw fish and fillet work. I love Ashi for the latter.

I only have owned one 270mm suji, Ashi Hamano in shirogami, and I would heartily recommend it.

 

[DitmasPork]

My 270 Takada, b1, probably sees the most work of the sujis I have—great Y Tanaka steel, nimble, fab grind—a go-to travel suji almost always in the suitcase.

 

[Choppin]

I only have owned one 270mm suji, Ashi Hamano in shirogami, and I would heartily recommend it.
View attachment 221425View attachment 221426

How flexy is this one?

 

[blokey]

Help me answer this question… suppose you rock up at someone’s Christmas / Thanksgiving dinner and they’re about to carve the ribeye roast with a flat slicer – it’s quite sharp enough and looks like this:
View attachment 221390
So naturally you say, wait, wait, and you run out to your car and open the trunk, basically a scene from an action movie except it’s kitchen knives instead of long guns, and you run back in the house excitedly waving a 335mm sujihiki from @MSicardCutlery.

View attachment 221391

You slice the roast while the rest of the guests watch in terrified silence. Eventually someone ventures to ask “ok but what’s the difference really between the slicer and the carver? Why would you prefer one over the other? Same length, same sharpness, works the same as far as I can tell. But 10x price difference. Is it a stiffness thing?”

TBH I think it is important to ask ourself those questions sometimes. Not everything need to be super delicately handmade. That said I do buy mechanical watches and hand made Yixin tea pots even tho they have no advantage over mass produced stuff apart from unique and beautiful.