Covid: the shape of things to come

[Luftmensch]

Can we just close this thread altogether

Nah...

If you just dip your toes in and read the most recent page... yes - it can look like a hot mess at times. I also wouldn't recommend reading it from start to finish. The thread is very 'of its time'.... so the re-read value is not high if you want to learn how to debur soft stainless steels

For those of us who have participated since @LostHighway started it almost a year ago, there is value in this thread. We all live in our bubbles. Personally I have learned different cultural and political perspectives from this thread. I have participated in some debates throughout this thread (some heated) and I think I have grown from them.

it’s just insults and garbage at this point

Given the potential for political and ideological bickering, this thread risked going seriously off the rails. The moderators have been lenient. I am grateful for that. Equivalently.... the thread has actually been pretty civil... (if you think about alternate directions it could take). But yes; fair point.... in any thread... best keep insults out of KKF.


Finally.... COVID aint over. Yes; we're mostly living like it is 2019. But the virus has not disappeared. It is still killing large numbers of people. In fact... Australia has gone to the dogs. Our numbers are worse than 2020 (and also look bad compared to our peers)... So the topic is still relevant....

 

[Luftmensch]

Strong use of exponents.

Anyone seen the 1997 movie Cube? It made me the man I am today.

Which part did you identify with? The mathematician or the autistic savant?.... Or both ?

I guess the question is... is the base 'Eric' prime or non-prime?

 

[mpier]

Nah...

If you just dip your toes in and read the most recent page... yes - it can look like a hot mess at times. I also wouldn't recommend reading it from start to finish. The thread is very 'of its time'.... so the re-read value is not high if you want to learn how to debur soft stainless steels

For those of us who have participated since @LostHighway started it almost a year ago, there is value in this thread. We all live in our bubbles. Personally I have learned different cultural and political perspectives from this thread. I have participated in some debates throughout this thread (some heated) and I think I have grown from them.





Given the potential for political and ideological bickering, this thread risked going seriously off the rails. The moderators have been lenient. I am grateful for that. Equivalently.... the thread has actually been pretty civil... (if you think about alternate directions it could take). But yes; fair point.... in any thread... best keep insults out of KKF.


Finally.... COVID aint over. Yes; we're mostly living like it is 2019. But the virus has not disappeared. It is still killing large numbers of people. In fact... Australia has gone to the dogs. Our numbers are worse than 2020 (and also look bad compared to our peers)... So the topic is still relevant....

Ya but it started out I believe to show the struggles that restaurants and it’s related employee’s we’re having do to a major crisis, which in line with KKF, now it’s just a few guys throwing BS against the wall and it has much less to do with what this community is all about. As a matter of fact at this point it is what we are not about.

 

[gregfisk]

Nah...

If you just dip your toes in and read the most recent page... yes - it can look like a hot mess at times. I also wouldn't recommend reading it from start to finish. The thread is very 'of its time'.... so the re-read value is not high if you want to learn how to debur soft stainless steels

For those of us who have participated since @LostHighway started it almost a year ago, there is value in this thread. We all live in our bubbles. Personally I have learned different cultural and political perspectives from this thread. I have participated in some debates throughout this thread (some heated) and I think I have grown from them.





Given the potential for political and ideological bickering, this thread risked going seriously off the rails. The moderators have been lenient. I am grateful for that. Equivalently.... the thread has actually been pretty civil... (if you think about alternate directions it could take). But yes; fair point.... in any thread... best keep insults out of KKF.


Finally.... COVID aint over. Yes; we're mostly living like it is 2019. But the virus has not disappeared. It is still killing large numbers of people. In fact... Australia has gone to the dogs. Our numbers are worse than 2020 (and also look bad compared to our peers)... So the topic is still relevant....

You can’t just show up here and suggest shutting down a thread that you haven’t been actively participating in. The thread has been extremely helpful for many and eye opening for others. Yes, there have been heated debates and people getting frustrated with each other at times. I do believe at this point no one is going to change anyone else’s mind but the good data that’s been posted is very useful nonetheless. If people would actually read the data from the best scientific sources available, which there are many, perhaps minds could be swayed. But, as long as people only read what lines up with what they choose to believe, no matter how obscure the source, it’s probably a waste of time. I personally appreciate the many legitimate sources that have been linked to here and have learned quite a lot from them. Linking to articles from the likes of epoch however isn’t helpful at all.

 

[ian]

Ya but it started out I believe to show the struggles that restaurants and it’s related employee’s we’re having do to a major crisis, which in line with KKF, now it’s just a few guys throwing BS against the wall and it has much less to do with what this community is all about. As a matter of fact at this point it is what we are not about.

?

The first page of the thread has basically the same character as all the rest of the pages. There was this thread, though.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/covid-effect-on-restaurant-industry.48386/

 

[mpier]

You can’t just show up here and suggest shutting down a thread that you haven’t been actively participating in. The thread has been extremely helpful for many and eye opening for others. Yes, there have been heated debates and people getting frustrated with each other at times. I do believe at this point no one is going to change anyone else’s mind but the good data that’s been posted is very useful nonetheless. If people would actually read the data from the best scientific sources available, which there are many, perhaps minds could be swayed. But, as long as people only read what lines up with what they choose to believe, no matter how obscure the source, it’s probably a waste of time. I personally appreciate the many legitimate sources that have been linked to here and have learned quite a lot from them. Linking to articles from the likes of epoch however isn’t helpful at all.

Yes I have read the entire thread, just because I haven’t replied to every comment doesn’t make me non active, just reading it IS active, but it has become non productive. As you you yourself stated no one is going to change there minds know and everyone can get or see the information being given. So what I’m saying is the horse is dead, put it underground and let the worm’s eat it.

 

[ian]

There's also the "Unwatch" button at the top of the page.

 

[rmrf]

Which part did you identify with? The mathematician or the autistic savant?.... Or both ?

I guess the question is... is the base 'Eric' prime or non-prime?

Wait, do you mean to suggest that not all mathematicians are autistic savants? My world is rocked.

Strong use of exponents.

Anyone seen the 1997 movie Cube? It made me the man I am today.

Did you go into math in order to be able to figure out the solution if you ever got into that situation? Or, did you go into math so that you could design a better Cube?

 

[gregfisk]

There's also the "Unwatch" button at the top of the page.

Exactly! Why read the entire thread and finally post just because YOU don’t want to read it anymore.

 

[daveb]

We all live in our bubbles. Personally I have learned different cultural and political perspectives from this thread. I have participated in some debates throughout this thread (some heated) and I think I have grown from them.

I've learned the terms Poli's (which I love) and more recently unambiguated (which spell check says is not a word but Mr Webster defines it - had to look)

For that there's value.

 

[mpier]

There's also the "Unwatch" button at the top of the page.

Ya I get that and I should just shut it off, but it’s like when someone farts and goes wow that stinks you still smell it and go wow that really does stink, and this thread really does stink!!!

 

[mpier]

Exactly! Why read the entire thread and finally post just because YOU don’t want to read it anymore.

I have posted

 

[mpier]

Exactly! Why read the entire thread and finally post just because YOU don’t want to read it anymore.

On this thread!!

 

[mpier]

Exactly! Why read the entire thread and finally post just because YOU don’t want to read it anymore.

And not just recently, many moons ago!! Or should I go with the flow and just insult you and say why don’t you check before you post disinformation about another member!!

 

[Michi]

Maybe we could all take a deep breath and do a reset?

I do find this thread useful, I have learned a lot here, and not just from one side. I believe there is value here, if we can manage to keep things civilised.

 

[ian]

Wait, do you mean to suggest that not all mathematicians are autistic savants? My world is rocked.

Did you go into math in order to be able to figure out the solution if you ever got into that situation? Or, did you go into math so that you could design a better Cube?

Nah, I just liked when the guy was cut into precise 3 inch cubes by all those wires. That’s what got me into cooking and high end cutlery, and brought me to this site!

 

[Luftmensch]

Nah, I just liked when the guy was cut into precise 3 inch cubes by all those wires.

Hehe... I was going to bring that up... Memorable scene. I decided to go with prime factorisations... Seeing as I am the sort of person who has to do mental arithmetic on a calculator.... I rather suspect I'd be the giblets guy...

Cube became a cult classic... I don't think it was much of a box-office success? If you like suspense/horror (and mathematics).... its an original idea (albeit; with some mediocre acting)! In some ways it paved the road for films like Saw. If I remember right.... it was less about gratuitous violence and more about the people?? Im going to put it on the list to rewatch!!

 

[sansho]

ian⁴: Hypercube (2002)

cool movies, but i hate how they end without revealing hardly anything about the cube system.

 

[Jovidah]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a lot of this misinformation was fed by outside actors. The Soviet Union had a long history of trying to feed anything that could potentially disrupt, distabilize and divide their adversaries ('active measures'). It would be naive to think that the Russian Federation and countries like China aren't doing the same thing now. What better way to knock out your competitors than have them dealing with all these COVID-related problems for years to come!

I just don't understand why some high profile figures are so willing to tag along with it though; yes you might have some short-term individual political gain but in the long-term it's just shooting your own country in the foot.

I posted this over half a year ago. I feel vindicated in that assesment when I observe how many of the COVID misinformation nonsense has almost seemlessly gone over to suddenly becoming anti-Ukrainian, anti-Zelensky etc disinformation in recent months.
The politicians and some media figures are also showing their true colors now. It's clear who's on the Kremlin's payroll...

 

[MarcelNL]

I posted this over half a year ago. I feel vindicated in that assesment when I observe how many of the COVID misinformation nonsense has almost seemlessly gone over to suddenly becoming anti-Ukrainian, anti-Zelensky etc disinformation in recent months.
The politicians and some media figures are also showing their true colors now. It's clear who's on the Kremlin's payroll...

I think that is an important observation, I thought I noticed soemthing similar yet I'm not in the usual social media or watching stuff on YT but from what I hear from the few Covid-sceptics around me pointed me in a similar line of thinking.

 

[Michi]

When Australia went through its wave of anti-lockdown demonstrations, many news outlets (left- and right-leaning) noticed that the demonstrations attracted a fair share of political extremists. They used the general unhappiness of the protesters as a vehicle to inject their own agenda and ideologies.

It wouldn't surprise me if a similar thing is happening with respect to the war. It makes sense: if I want to get a message across, I try to find a place for it where lots and lots of people are paying attention

In a way, the Covid thing is sort of a dead horse; most countries will have all the vaccinated people they are ever going to get by now and lockdowns are pretty much a thing of the past, so there is nowhere near as much pent-up anger as before. So, the free-riders go to where the anger has moved to.

 

[MarcelNL]

Agree with you Michi, but please don't say the L word.....our gov't has not been able/done much tangible things to alleviate the pressure on our healthcare system yet the percentage of health care workers on sick leave never has been higher.

 

[Michi]

our gov't has not been able/done much tangible things to alleviate the pressure on our healthcare system yet the percentage of health care workers on sick leave never has been higher.

It is much the same here. Our hospitals are groaning under the weight of Covid patients. (We are currently #2 in new per-capita infections, bested only by North Korea.) That is despite a 96% vaccination rate.

With Omicron, the vaccines really don't seem to do all that much to prevent infection. Add to this that we have done away with almost all restrictions in terms of mask use, and people's complacency when it comes to getting a booster. (Currently at 65%, but climbing only very slowly.) Another factor is that, for many people, the last vaccination is now a dim distant memory. The vaccines wane over time, so that would contribute as well.

And people are really laissez faire with the flu vaccine, so now the flu patients are adding themselves to the Covid patients and bog down the hospitals even more.

The one silver lining is that the fatality rate is very low. The vaccines are effective when it comes to preventing severe disease outcome, at least.

Still, it's a proper shitshow over here

 

[Luftmensch]

Agree with you Michi, but please don't say the L word.....our gov't has not been able/done much tangible things to alleviate the pressure on our healthcare system yet the percentage of health care workers on sick leave never has been higher.

Our healthcare system is decent by global standards. Like in many affluent countries our system was running under the assumption that there would be no pandemic.

Before the pandemic the hospital system was used a staging ground for disability, geriatrics and homeless patients who had fallen through the cracks. Due to discharge rules these patient linger in hospital beds when they should be getting care from other (underfunded) services. This is still occuring... but now there is a higher load of patients due to the pandemic and less staff due to furloughs. We are also getting hit pretty hard by the Flu this year. This is a nasty confluence of conditions...

It is documented well enough (e.g. here and here.... and here... and here). Yet the majority of the population are happy to 'live with covid' however they interpret those terms. I absolutely believe more should be done to support the wellbeing of our medical community.

 

[Luftmensch]

We are currently #2 in new per-capita infections, bested only by North Korea.

I wonder about this.

it's a proper shitshow over here

I fully agree! The ABC had a recent article about this. They included a paragraph early on in the piece:

Some countries, such as Denmark, have scrapped COVID-19 testing recommendations, and others have scaled back testing regimes, meaning getting like-for-like comparisons across the world is now more difficult.

This is a decent observation and makes me skeptical of our exact shitness rank. Still no doubt about it... there is nothing to be proud of. Our current figures are poor and we could do better.

 

[Jovidah]

When Australia went through its wave of anti-lockdown demonstrations, many news outlets (left- and right-leaning) noticed that the demonstrations attracted a fair share of political extremists. They used the general unhappiness of the protesters as a vehicle to inject their own agenda and ideologies.

It wouldn't surprise me if a similar thing is happening with respect to the war. It makes sense: if I want to get a message across, I try to find a place for it where lots and lots of people are paying attention

It's the other way around rather; Russia has been feeding stuff into the extremist wings on both the left and rightt side for decades. With the far left it goes back further into the cold war. You think it's a coincidence virtually all far-left terrorism died out at the end of the cold war?

With the war it has just become extremely visible since basically overnight you suddenly see groups repeating narrative and messaging that's virtually identical regardless of where they are on the polical spectrum...and pretty much around the same timeframe. The only difficulty really is distinguishing who's a Kremlin-allied actor, who's a bot, and who's just a helpful idiot.

I just hope that governments will finally wake up now to how far Russia has already gone with destabilization and disinformation campaigns in our countries. It's like a cancer that needs to be eradicated.

 

[Barmoley]

It is much the same here. Our hospitals are groaning under the weight of Covid patients. (We are currently #2 in new per-capita infections, bested only by North Korea.) That is despite a 96% vaccination rate.

With Omicron, the vaccines really don't seem to do all that much to prevent infection. Add to this that we have done away with almost all restrictions in terms of mask use, and people's complacency when it comes to getting a booster. (Currently at 65%, but climbing only very slowly.) Another factor is that, for many people, the last vaccination is now a dim distant memory. The vaccines wane over time, so that would contribute as well.

And people are really laissez faire with the flu vaccine, so now the flu patients are adding themselves to the Covid patients and bog down the hospitals even more.

The one silver lining is that the fatality rate is very low. The vaccines are effective when it comes to preventing severe disease outcome, at least.

Still, it's a proper shitshow over here

Do people go to the hospitals for care even though they are not severely sick? Or is it more due to the sheer number of people getting this, so that even small percentage of severe cases is a large number? Vaccines are supposed to be pretty good for not getting seriously sick and ending up at a hospital.

 

[MarcelNL]

the sheer numbers are overwhelming, 1% breakthtrough cases in the vaccinated of which 40% is >55-60 makes for huge quantities of potential severily ill patients (forgive me the exact numbers, just asa n off the cuff example)

 

[Barmoley]

the sheer numbers are overwhelming, 1% breakthtrough cases in the vaccinated of which 40% is >55-60 makes for huge quantities of potential severily ill patients (forgive me the exact numbers, just asa n off the cuff example)

Understood, just specifically asking about situation in Oz. We are not seeing same in California so far even though cases are going up significantly. I am curious if this is due to Australia being spared earlier on due to stricter lock downs and general abidance by the rules or just us lagging. As we've all found out, vaccines are not very good at preventing infection with omicron and variants.

 

[Nemo]

Do people go to the hospitals for care even though they are not severely sick? Or is it more due to the sheer number of people getting this, so that even small percentage of severe cases is a large number? Vaccines are supposed to be pretty good for not getting seriously sick and ending up at a hospital.

The pressure on the hospital systems (there is a separate system in each state) is complicated and multifactorial. People do turn up to hospital when they are severely unwell. In my observation, the extra burden imposed covid patients taking up beds is responsible for only a part of the pressure on hospitals. A lot the people that I have seen who are very sick are not up to date with vaccination (IIRC, NSW has a 95%plus double vax rate but only a 65ish% triple vax rate) and/ or immunocompromised.

A big part of the problem is that there has been chronic underfunding of hospitals to the point where they were severely stretched under normal circumstances.

Add in:
1) Staff shortages due to illness and isolation (not to mention the many people who are burned out and have left the health industry).
2) Inefficiencies caused by the extra effort required to provide routine health care during a pandemic (having to wear PPE, take other precautions, test patients, isolate patients and modify the workflows and spaces that the hospitals were designed for to accomodate these changes).
3) The additional burden of emergency work (caused by the backlog of routine healthcare and surgery having not dealt with preventable health problems in time)...

and it's not hard to see how an already stretched system can be pushed to breaking point.