One Bunka to rule them all?

[Theeeel]

Hello everyone !

I am 35, living in Paris, homecook for my wife, and I'm officially addicted now by japaneses blades.
I own two santokus, stainless, german and japanese.

I love the design of Bunka's carbon finish, and therefore I'm willing to buy my new toy

If you had to chose between one of these three, (whatever the price might be) :

- Anryu Aogami Super Walnut Bunka 17CM
- Manaka Hamono Shirogami#2 16,5CM
- Shiro Kamo Aogami Super Bunka 17CM

Thank you a lot in advance for your advise, I'm strongly hesitating between these threes, and I will take your opinion to press the "Buy" button.

Kind regards
Flo

 

[Theeeel]

To the sky !

 

[timebard]

No experience with the Manaka but between the Anryu and Shiro Kamo (disregarding price) I'd take the Anryu, which has both nicer finish and a better grind on the examples I've tried.

 

[Theeeel]

No experience with the Manaka but between the Anryu and Shiro Kamo (disregarding price) I'd take the Anryu, which has both nicer finish and a better grind on the examples I've tried.

Thank you

 

[plantgainz]

Thank you

Never tried an Anryu but will for sure, Kamo's are very thin and good knives overall, just bad food release in my experience but often very cheap for what you get. Manaka is on another price level, I would consider other knives in that price range unless you drool for those looks which I do as well. I would consider kyohei shindo for a good cheap option as well, very cheap with **** handles or just cheap with upgraded handles.

 

[SWF]

You should also consider a HADO bunka. I've got an old OUL ginsan and absolutely love it.

 

[Rideon66]

I don't know that particular Anryu, but I have Anryu Bunka in Shirogami #2 and it is a really nice blade.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Never tried an Anryu but will for sure, Kamo's are very thin and good knives overall, just bad food release in my experience but often very cheap for what you get. Manaka is on another price level, I would consider other knives in that price range unless you drool for those looks which I do as well. I would consider kyohei shindo for a good cheap option as well, very cheap with **** handles or just cheap with upgraded handles.

Manaka's shirogami offerings aren't that expensive, comparably speaking. His other lines definitely jump up.

 

[bradmacmt]

I've had a number of Anryu AS knives, and they are indeed excellent. However, my favorite knife, and the one I use the most, is a relatively inexpensive Sakai Kikumori Aogami no. 2 Nashiji 180mm Bunka. I have knives from Toyama, Watanabe, etc., but the Sakai Bunka is the knife I reach for most often. I like its height, that its nicely thin behind the edge, and the fact it steers straight through any type of veg, hard or soft. I'd definitely prefer it over the Anryu 170mm Bunka. The Sakai's performance is essentially identical to my Toyama's, which is saying a lot!

In Europe:
https://thechefscorner.de/products/sakai-kikumori-aogami-2-nashiji-bunka-180mm
In the USA:
https://carbonknifeco.com/products/kikumori-nashiji-blue-2-bunka-180mm

 

[plantgainz]

I've had a number of Anryu AS knives, and they are indeed excellent. However, my favorite knife, and the one I use the most, is a relatively inexpensive Sakai Kikumori Aogami no. 2 Nashiji 180mm Bunka. I have knives from Toyama, Watanabe, etc., but the Sakai Bunka is the knife I reach for most often. I like its height, that its nicely thin behind the edge, and the fact it steers straight through any type of veg, hard or soft. I'd definitely prefer it over the Anryu 170mm Bunka. The Sakai's performance is essentially identical to my Toyama's, which is saying a lot!

In Europe:
https://thechefscorner.de/products/sakai-kikumori-aogami-2-nashiji-bunka-180mm
In the USA:
https://carbonknifeco.com/products/kikumori-nashiji-blue-2-bunka-180mm

Seems a Shu Matsubara to me, possible?

 

[bradmacmt]

Seems a Shu Matsubara to me, possible?

Many have speculated that Matsubara makes these. Could be the case, but I'm not convinced.

 

[btbyrd]

My Anryu bunka's profile has no flat spot. It's not a bad knife, but I thought I was getting something flatter. Mine's all belly.

 

[omegatemplar]

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/minamoto-no-masakane-bunka-230mm-wide/

 

[bradmacmt]

My Anryu bunka's profile has no flat spot. It's not a bad knife, but I thought I was getting something flatter. Mine's all belly.

Yes, Anryu's have more curve in the belly. I prefer flatter profile knives, one more reason I like the Sakai so much. Has a big flat spot.

 

[Jovidah]

Are you basically just shopping on aesthethics? Because the looks have little relation to the material (carbon core). Maybe do a knife questionaire?

 

[Benuser]

My Anryu bunka's profile has no flat spot. It's not a bad knife, but I thought I was getting something flatter. Mine's all belly.

No experience with the knife. With that profile you may expect frequent sharpening though, as the contact area with the board is so small.

 

[btbyrd]

Because it has no flat spot, I find that the shape forces me to compensate by using more of a rocking motion with your push cuts and that ends up using most of the length of the blade. Of course, only a small portion is in contact at any one time, so you've got to be careful not to put strong lateral pressure on it while cutting. But on Hi Soft boards and good technique, a sharpening will last me a while.

All that said, I think that for my personal preferences, the dream bunka has a flatter profile and is probably stainless. A lasery R2 like those from Shibata Kotetsu or Kei Kobayashi might be the one. But I'm happy enough with the Anryu, and it's my wife's favorite.

 

[btbyrd]

My true favorite bunkas are 240 k-tip gyutos.

 

[Desert Rat]

My true favorite bunkas are 240 k-tip gyutos.

View attachment 260369

What is that top one? I really like that flatter profile. At 240 what makes them Bunka's and not a Kiritsuke?

 

[plantgainz]

What is that top one? I really like that flatter profile. At 240 what makes them Bunka's and not a Kiritsuke?

I think he was trying to say that he prefers oversized bunka's, de facto k tip gyutos

 

[NotAddictedYet]

Shibata Koutetsu 180 bunka. IMHO if you only have one to rule it all get a laserrr

 

[WenC]

I think the answer will be subjective to the user based on their preferences (e.g, anesthetics, what ingredients you will use it on, that is associated to thickness, and how you cut for how flat or curve). If you just want to use it without worries and have fun. I would get kyohei shindo and work on it.

To answer your question, if to choose only between those 3, then I would pick the Anryu Aogami Super Walnut Bunka 17CM.

 

[btbyrd]

What is that top one? I really like that flatter profile. At 240 what makes them Bunka's and not a Kiritsuke?

The top one is a Yoshihiro 240 k-tip gyuto in aogami 2. The profile is one of my favorites and the weight and thickness make it a workhorse. It was my first J-knife. That knife seems to be discontinued and isn't on their website anymore, but here's a link to the product page from Indian Amazon. I'm pretty sure everything Yoshihiro (echefknife.com) sells was made by other OEM companies. They sell rebranded Sukenaris, for example. But I digress.

And you're right. They're not really bunkas. They're gyutos with kiritsuke tips. "Real" kiritsukes are single beveled.

 

[Heckel7302]

My one and only bunka is the Shibata Kotetsu. For me it's perfect, everything I want a bunka to be. 52 heel height, 180 length, laser cuts, great convex grind (as much as there can be in a thin knife), fit and finish is impeccable, neutral balance makes it float in a pinch grip, surprisingly decent food release for a laser. The vertical belt finish looks really "modern" to me, which I suppose is at the essence of bunka, the more "modern" santoku. Just a banger of a knife. I think the best one of the Kotetsu line.

 

[plantgainz]

My one and only bunka is the Shibata Kotetsu. For me it's perfect, everything I want a bunka to be. 52 heel height, 180 length, laser cuts, great convex grind (as much as there can be in a thin knife), fit and finish is impeccable, neutral balance makes it float in a pinch grip, surprisingly decent food release for a laser. The vertical belt finish looks really "modern" to me, which I suppose is at the essence of bunka, the more "modern" santoku. Just a banger of a knife. I think the best one of the Kotetsu line.

You can never go wrong with a Shibata!

 

[SwampDonkey]

All that said, I think that for my personal preferences, the dream bunka has a flatter profile and is probably stainless. A lasery R2 like those from Shibata Kotetsu or Kei Kobayashi might be the one. But I'm happy enough with the Anryu, and it's my wife's favorite.

Agreed. I went through a bunka phase a while ago and my two favorites ended up being the Ogata 180 SG2 (top knife in pic) and Kochi V2 180. The Ogata is tall and has a good flat spot, in practice it reminded me of a K-tip nakiri. I recently sold it and already regret doing so. Will likely grab another.

The Kochi has a bit more curve but still maintains a really pleasant sweet spot

 

[salparadise]

However, my favorite knife, and the one I use the most, is a relatively inexpensive Sakai Kikumori Aogami no. 2 Nashiji 180mm Bunka. I have knives from Toyama, Watanabe, etc., but the Sakai Bunka is the knife I reach for most often. I like its height, that its nicely thin behind the edge, and the fact it steers straight through any type of veg, hard or soft. I'd definitely prefer it over the Anryu 170mm Bunka. The Sakai's performance is essentially identical to my Toyama's, which is saying a lot!

In Europe:
https://thechefscorner.de/products/sakai-kikumori-aogami-2-nashiji-bunka-180mm
In the USA:
https://carbonknifeco.com/products/kikumori-nashiji-blue-2-bunka-180mm

I just ordered this knife, mostly based on the effusive recommendation you gave it. I've been looking at bunkas for awhile (never used one), and one day I'd be on the Hado Sumo and another day it would be something else. I finally decided it was time to just try something. This was relatively inexpensive... and the B2 was attractive as I have an AS and a B2 (gyutos) and they are noticeably better at edge retention that my shirogami. So I'm excited to give this a try. Bought it from Carbon.

 

[Budrichard]

From the information from this Thread and Website, I ordered the Shibata Kotetsu 180mm Bunka from KnifeWear.
I like a ‘wide’ blade as my usual knife for Western Preps is an 8” Wide Wusthof.
For Japanese thin cuts its a Takeda Nakiri.
I have a-number of Takedas ordered directly and some actually picked up from Shosui at Knife Shows before he stopped taking orders and only selling to Dealers.
I prefer to order from the Maker but could not find a link for Shibata Kotetsu on InstaGram?
Thanks to all for the information!
I should add, in the world of Japanese knifemaking, the price was reasonable and hopefully the perfprmance will be the same!
-Richard

 

[Cliff]

I love Shibata -- it's the thinnest knife I have, I think. Also love Shiro Kamo in R2, a little stouter but still incredible performance.

 

[pitted_soul]

I have two bunkas (well a bunka and a Hakata) that I both love. I have a Manaka too.

First. I can't speak highly enough of Nao Yamamoto's hakata in AS from cleancut. I wish I could use it for the 1st time again. It isn't a laser, good stout spine, but it's thin bte, the hakata allows for a better k-tip (imo), and it just smokes through anything while not fragile at all. Love it. Cleancut's pricing is very good on this line (there's only 1 left) as it's 40% more anywhere else I have seen.

I was enamored with the Manaka, but it wasn't great. Solid, but not great.

My 2nd favorite is a Masashi Yamamoto (not related I don't think) Kokuen in SG2. It's thinner than the NY but not a laser and can cut through about anything with considerable adeptness.

Dark Horse: Kyohei Shindo in B2. I just got it because of how well the gyuto cut. It has no right cutting as well as it does for that price, good stuff.