Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

Pikehaus

Somebody
Joined
Apr 30, 2022
Messages
53
Reaction score
49
Location
Melbourne, Australia
There is a lot of knowledge here about the SG stones from some very knowledgeable people. However, there seems to be contradictory opinions out there. Some say it's slightly softer than the Kuromakus. Some say it's softer than the Naniwa pros and on the softer side of SNG stones. I have even heard someone say it feels like rubber. What are its characteristics? Dishing, Hardness, Cutting?
 
Last edited:

ModRQC

Insufferable Member
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
3,852
Reaction score
4,431
Location
QC, CA
Softer than SPs... I wouldn't think so. At the #320 level I can assure you the SG is harder, less dishy. Comparing SG500 to SP1K seems to be about the same hardness. Comparing either SG4K or SG6K with SP5K... there yes the Kuromaku seemed a tad harder - and glassier.

NP400 dished more than SG320 to me, but still pretty hard and well behaved there. In my experience NPs are not especially so much harder, but they have a creamier feel generally, and a bit slower cutting generally as well... to me.

Edit: I think for sharpening a variety of steels it's hard to say much against Shapton Glass. However, while they can bring something to the table in thinning/polishing, they won't last so long used that way would be their main negative.

So I guess in lower grits the SG bonding tends to create harder, slower dishing stones, but as you move up in grits it all sorts of equalize in comparing with SPs and even NPs. To a point where hardness is not the most defining charecteristics of each series to me, but rather blending in at some point.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 15, 2017
Messages
929
Reaction score
2,327
Location
Texas
Im a big fan of the SG series as a whole. They aren't the best feeling at higher grits - rubbery or sticky is an apt descriptor. But, they are a good balance of speed and dish resistance and you really can't beat their compact size and true splash and go nature in my opinion. The comparatively shallow scratch depth is also a big plus in my book since I inevitably jump off to naturals after the 2k or 4k to finish the progression. The SG500 is best in class, but I like the rest of the family too.
 

HumbleHomeCook

Whiskey for my men. Beer for my horses.
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2020
Messages
4,464
Reaction score
8,805
Location
PNW USA
When I committed to getting and learning water stones, I went with Shapton Glass and have zero regrets with that decision. Now, to @Benuser's point, no doubt there's subtleties and nuances within all the lines that make certain stones more attractive for certain tasks but if you're considering getting the SG's and are looking for input to help that decision, then personally I'd say go for it.

Mine are 500, 2k, and 4k.
 

Benuser

from The Netherlands, EU.
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
8,556
Reaction score
3,226
When I committed to getting and learning water stones, I went with Shapton Glass and have zero regrets with that decision. Now, to @Benuser's point, no doubt there's subtleties and nuances within all the lines that make certain stones more attractive for certain tasks but if you're considering getting the SG's and are looking for input to help that decision, then personally I'd say go for it.

Mine are 500, 2k, and 4k.
Absolutely.
 

daveb

Staff member
Administrator
Global Moderators
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
14,106
Reaction score
7,245
Location
St Pete, the one in Florida
Now, to @Benuser's point, no doubt there's subtleties and nuances within all the lines that make certain stones more attractive for certain tasks but if you're considering getting the SG's and are looking for input to help that decision, then personally I'd say go for it.

And don't overlook the subjective nature of working with different lines of stones as well as different stones within a line. I like Shapton. I like the SG line and the SP line. (But can't find any love for SP5000). Others on here may like Chosera. Or many of the other quality stones as well. They're all good, most of the time the preference is subjective.

Pick the line that's attractive to you and learn to use it.
 

Delat

Dazed & Confused
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
1,454
Reaction score
3,050
Location
Phoenix
I seem to recall a distributor saying that SG has a higher density of cutting particles but in a softer matrix vs the equivalent SP. But due to the higher density of hard particles it can feel tougher? This is because SG is intended for tougher steels (which doesn’t seem to actually be the case in practice from comments I’ve seen here).

Not sure what folk’s opinion of this article is, but I found it interesting as a discussion of the whole line. Picking an individual stone is a whole different matter though and I’d rely on past threads with feedback on specific stones vs something like the article below.

Shapton Stone Tutorial Part 1: Introduction to the Shapton Pro and Glass Series
 

Ggmerino

MasterBlaster
Joined
Jul 11, 2021
Messages
44
Reaction score
98
Location
New York, USA
I find the SGs to be incredibly fast cutting (perhaps due to density of particles someone mentioned?). They work across the board but are particularly useful for certain hard to sharpen stainless steels like SG2, Elmax, Sv35n, etc. they do not wear or dish very quickly at all. I go all the way to 8K and they are smooth as butter, although not as nice feeling as some naturals. One really key thing I realized is that I needed to invest in a good flattening diamond plate (the Shapton one that is stupid expensive unfortunately). Tried to use a cheaper plate and it left the stones feel ”gravely” or “gummy”, particularly at the higher grits.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
887
Reaction score
1,210
I find the SGs to be incredibly fast cutting (perhaps due to density of particles someone mentioned?). They work across the board but are particularly useful for certain hard to sharpen stainless steels like SG2, Elmax, Sv35n, etc. they do not wear or dish very quickly at all. I go all the way to 8K and they are smooth as butter, although not as nice feeling as some naturals. One really key thing I realized is that I needed to invest in a good flattening diamond plate (the Shapton one that is stupid expensive unfortunately). Tried to use a cheaper plate and it left the stones feel ”gravely” or “gummy”, particularly at the higher grits.

I wonder whether the gravely result was because it was cheaper, or because it was not worn out enough. I've used really worn-out plates on higher grit SG stones with success, except for the suction-sticking part. Hard to compare plates, though. These are 30 years old, and consist of some sort of 3M diamond cloth attached to an aluminum plate. I have not seen anything like them for sale for a long time.
 

M1k3

New Mexico prefecture #1
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
8,487
Reaction score
13,817
They just work.

The 500 is one of the best stones, in that grit range and in general.

The 4k is a great match to the 500, just has a slight tendency to slow down/clog with light pressure. Easily remedied though.

They dish slow and continuously cut, for the most part. Truly splash n go.
 

Ggmerino

MasterBlaster
Joined
Jul 11, 2021
Messages
44
Reaction score
98
Location
New York, USA
I wonder whether the gravely result was because it was cheaper, or because it was not worn out enough…
Don’t know, but the cheaper plate (CKTG 140 lapping) left just very small scratches I could see with a magnifying glass on the surface of the SG stone - perhaps because of loose diamond particles or lower density of diamond particles- but using a better plate made a really big difference in the sharpening feel and results.
 

cotedupy

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2020
Messages
2,868
Reaction score
5,816
Location
London
It’s worth noting for OP that SGs come in two versions: HR and HC. Most people I imagine will be talking about the SG HR which is available at every grit. Whereas the HC only comes in 500, 4k, 6k, 8k.

I don’t think I’ve ever used an HC stone, so can’t say anything about how they compare or how much of a difference there is, but maybe someone else has thoughts...
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
887
Reaction score
1,210
It’s worth noting for OP that SGs come in two versions: HR and HC. Most people I imagine will be talking about the SG HR which is available at every grit. Whereas the HC only comes in 500, 4k, 6k, 8k.

I don’t think I’ve ever used an HC stone, so can’t say anything about how they compare or how much of a difference there is, but maybe someone else has thoughts...

I don't believe there is a SG 500 HC. Maybe you're thinking of the double-thick SG500?

HC is only 4k, 6k, 8k. I have all three. They are even creamier to sharpen on than the HR series at comparable grit, and they put a mirror polish on carbon steel. I like the HC series a lot, but I only use them as part of razor sequences. My impression is they are more about clean edges than toothy kitchen knife edges.
 

cotedupy

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2020
Messages
2,868
Reaction score
5,816
Location
London
I don't believe there is a SG 500 HC. Maybe you're thinking of the double-thick SG500?

HC is only 4k, 6k, 8k. I have all three. They are even creamier to sharpen on than the HR series at comparable grit, and they put a mirror polish on carbon steel. I like the HC series a lot, but I only use them as part of razor sequences. My impression is they are more about clean edges than toothy kitchen knife edges.

Ah! Yeah, you're probably right there now that I think about it... I hadn't seen a 500HC talked about by anyone - I just checked the Shapton website, saw two 500 models in the little graphic and made the assumption. But now that you mention, it makes more sense that the other was for the 2x thickness HR version. Thank you for pointing that out!
 
Last edited:

Cliff

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
451
Reaction score
402
I have the HC in 4K and have mixed feelings, but it likely has more do do with 4K being an in-between grit for me. I don't have a 4K HR to compare it to... I gather the HC is just a bit finer, gives a little more polish. It still has some bite.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2021
Messages
99
Reaction score
76
Location
Florida
I bought SG stones 500, 1000, 3000, 4000, and 8000 back in November. I love them! Also bought the heavy stone holder, and it's rock solid using that and easy to change stones out. MTC Kitchen had a sale that made it more affordable. I built a water bridge, which really helps IMHO. Overall, they work so much better and faster than my old stones.

I would be interested in knowing what better flattening plates are out there. I have a $55 one I bought from JKI a few years ago.
 

Benuser

from The Netherlands, EU.
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
8,556
Reaction score
3,226
Have no good results with SiC stone flatteners. Slow, very slow, the mud it creates cannot be used as it is contaminated with SiC particles, and eventually they don't stay flat themselves. I now use only the Atoma 140 for all my stones, except the most coarse ones, like a 220 or 120. Even on the finest. The smooth finish on the finest stones can easily be restored with other stones or a nagura, if you want to. Otherwise, the coarse finish the 140 causes will only stay for a few sharpenings and make them only faster.
 
Top