Unpopular opinions

[Jovidah]

But, I would trade this all for mandating vents to the outside. Cooking with these dumb ass recirculating fans built into a microwave is idiotic. How can a microwave be more important than ventilation.

This is really the main problem. It's not that cooking with gas is necessarily a major health hazard. But bad ventilation is. Even when you're cooking on induction. But in so many kitchens it's basically an afterthought.

 

[Jovidah]

Speaking of woks: "Woks for a home cook without a wok burner is cosplay."

You will get a better effect with a flat bottom pan. You can't toss as well, but there's not enough heat output on a home stove to make tossing necessary to prevent burning. If you're tossing noodles, you don't need that much heat. If you're trying to crisp noodles like I do for pad thai, you don't have enough heat anyways. Wok Hei is just burned oil... you can burn oil on a flat bottom carbon steel pan too. You need to pool oil to brown aromatics? Tip your pan. Worried about wanting to have hot and cold spots in your wok? Move your pan half off the burner.

If you have a wok burner or enough power to ignite the oil in your pan in seconds, there's probably a good reason for a wok. However, I've never had enough power indoors to do either.

Yeah a wok is pretty horrible at most consumer stoves. I think the main reason they became popular is because it's just a conveniently sized vessel; people basically use them as tall frying pans. Which is fine, but on consumer stoves (whether gas or electric) a wider curved sautee pan / tall frying pan with a wider bottom would work better....but few manufacturers even make those.

Also... you highlighted what is IMO one of the biggest downsides of induction. Since you need to keep contact with the cooking surface holding a pan tilted isn't really viable for more than just short moments since you'll stop heating your pan. Currently I do that a lot when irregular pieces of meat.
Similar problem with tossing stuff during a saute.

 

[Naftoor]

But, I would trade this all for mandating vents to the outside. Cooking with these dumb ass recirculating fans built into a microwave is idiotic. How can a microwave be more important than ventilation.

Absolutely agree. The fact is, there’s all sorts of stuff that offgases as a result of cooking that is almost certainly worse for you than the CO a gas stove is putting out. The fact that outside ventilation systems are not a legal requirement for any living space that contains pick 2 of Fridge, oven, stove is honestly mind blowing to me. Literally millions of apartment dwellers in the US alone, slowly poisoning themselves whenever they vaporize oils on the stove or in the oven, and nobody cares.

 

[Dan-]

I’ve been experimenting with induction since getting a decent countertop unit. I have a Thermador propane cooktop too. My hood vents outdoors (personal requirement when I bought the house).

My toddler coughs when the propane stove is on. My Bluair filters go yellow/red when I stir-fry. I have to turn on the loud hood even to cook on low heat or boil something.

With induction, these are only considerations for high heat cooking, and I can keep my oil below its smoke point. If I want wok hay, I can go outside. If I want my rice or oatmeal to not stick, it doesn’t. If I want to actually boil things, it does.

 

[sansho]

i love my induction stove and wouldn't want to go back to any other cooktop technology.

that said, i am against banning gas because i would hate to move to a place that does not have natural gas service and is also too urban for my own (bulk size, 100+ gal) propane tank. i love having a plumbed in grill. i plumb in any gas tool that doesn't need to move (like pizza oven). i usually do this even for devices that are designed for portable tanks (like wok) because it's so much more convenient. i use flexible lines with quick connects designed for RVs. 5 gallon propane tank is not an acceptable option for me except for when i need a truly mobile solution.

also, gas is usually the cheapest reasonable option for furnaces.

 

[parbaked]

You can’t get wok hei flavor without a strong flame and good technique so the flame touches the product as it’s tossed.
Same as you can’t really replicate smoking meat without a smoker.
You can make tasty stir fry in a carbon pan, but it will lack wok hei…

 

[rmrf]

Also... you highlighted what is IMO one of the biggest downsides of induction. Since you need to keep contact with the cooking surface holding a pan tilted isn't really viable for more than just short moments since you'll stop heating your pan. Currently I do that a lot when irregular pieces of meat.
Similar problem with tossing stuff during a saute.

Yah, thats 100% correct. Being able to toss and or tilt the pan to pool oil to fry is a big advantage to gas. With induction, I just ended up using a very heavy pan that holds heat if I needed to toss. However, generally I pushed and stirred. For irregular pieces of meat that I want a nice sear, I used the smallest heaviest fry pan, much more oil, and short bouts of tilting. It doesn't work that well so I usually try and cut the meats ahead of time to maximize even flat surfaces or compromise on the sear.


If I could build a perfect 4 burner stove, 3 would be induction and 1 would be gas just to solve the meat searing problem.

 

[rmrf]

You can’t get wok hei flavor without a strong flame and good technique so the flame touches the product as it’s tossed.
Same as you can’t really replicate smoking meat without a smoker.
You can make tasty stir fry in a carbon pan, but it will lack wok hei…

Agree, I'd just argue that the closest you can get on a residential stove is a flat bottom skillet with burned oil vapor. Using a wok because you want to flip food to generate wok hei but cooking on a residential stove is like using a hasagawa cutting board when all your knives are dull.

I don't think these sort of broad statements are ever accurate.
There are serious usability issues with using a wok on electric. A deep skillet is not a good replacement either. I eventually found something that works okay for larger quantities but it was really by chance because it's the sort of thing most people who cook poo-poo (Hexclad knockoff). A lot of Chinese people actually use these at home now, and it works well enough.
I thought the consensus was that wok hei is from the flame igniting the oil spray? Which cannot really be done on electric without a torch (but is best not done at home indoors anyway)

Personally, I'd be more worried about stir frying on teflon. Its technically not safe above like, 450F I think. I thought hexclad was just stainless steel ridges with teflon valleys, but I haven't done much research into hexclad. Of course, if you aren't stir frying with a wok, thats different. Its just a deep round saute pan. Personally, I have no use for that but to each their own. I have an all clad 13+" straight side saute pan that I like for that sort of stuff. I like my foods dry though so maybe its not for everyone. Its also a pain to clean on gas stoves.

 

[Naftoor]

Also: Jeans are terrible pants. They are good at making your dump truck look good and that’s about it. They are the best work pants, and I would argue poor ones at that. If they’re heavy enough fabric to withstand blue collar or outdoors work, it leads to too much wear on the inner thighs and an extremely short life span. Go lighter, and they don’t protect you from stuff. Reinforce the area with leather, and washing becomes questionable. For daily wear they are heavy, and inflexible, unless you go modern stretch jeans which have durability issues as well.

Unfortunately they’re the only real option if you want to have a loop for your key carabiner and a pocket knife. Khakis make you look like you tuck your shirts in, and cargo pants make it look like you carry tater tots in your pockets.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. This was not sponsored by Cotton, the fabric of our kniiiives

 

[sansho]

jeans are s hit. total trash. i've seriously never owned a pair.

khakis, slacks, and cargo pants (i like stuff by 5.11) are where it's at.

 

[M1k3]

Dickies > jeans

 

[Michi]

Smithsonian article on the gas cooktop thing:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...and-health-than-previously-thought-180979494/
The concern appears to be methane, both from incomplete combustion and from slow leaks. Methane is definitely no good when it comes to climate change. According to the article, "methane emissions from gas stoves across the United States are roughly equivalent to the carbon dioxide released by half a million gas-powered cars in a year." If that is indeed correct, that is significant. But it's not going to make a major difference when one considers all the other things that gas is used for.

Personally, I've grown used to my electric (flat ceramic) cooktop. I do have a wok burner outside, but that gets used only when I stir-fry, so I'll continue sleeping with a good conscience

 

[superworrier]

Agree, I'd just argue that the closest you can get on a residential stove is a flat bottom skillet with burned oil vapor. Using a wok because you want to flip food to generate wok hei but cooking on a residential stove is like using a hasagawa cutting board when all your knives are dull.


Personally, I'd be more worried about stir frying on teflon. Its technically not safe above like, 450F I think. I thought hexclad was just stainless steel ridges with teflon valleys, but I haven't done much research into hexclad. Of course, if you aren't stir frying with a wok, thats different. Its just a deep round saute pan. Personally, I have no use for that but to each their own. I have an all clad 13+" straight side saute pan that I like for that sort of stuff. I like my foods dry though so maybe its not for everyone. Its also a pain to clean on gas stoves.

Yep, it's some sort of nonstick (Teflon or one of the rebadged "it's not teflon" but totally is things). You don't need super high heat to do stir fry (and this is how most Chinese home cooking is), but you're definitely not getting wok hei on it. High burner power doesn't necessarily correspond to the surface heating up high except for preheating, because burner power is heat flux, not temperature.

 

[mengwong]

If you haven’t used induction before, for about $100 you can try one out before deciding. (Built-ins will cost more.)

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-portable-induction-cooktop/
Running a power cord to your dinner table means you can do fun teppanyaki with steak cubes etc.

 

[superworrier]

Also: Jeans are terrible pants. They are good at making your dump truck look good and that’s about it. They are the best work pants, and I would argue poor ones at that. If they’re heavy enough fabric to withstand blue collar or outdoors work, it leads to too much wear on the inner thighs and an extremely short life span. Go lighter, and they don’t protect you from stuff. Reinforce the area with leather, and washing becomes questionable. For daily wear they are heavy, and inflexible, unless you go modern stretch jeans which have durability issues as well.

Unfortunately they’re the only real option if you want to have a loop for your key carabiner and a pocket knife. Khakis make you look like you tuck your shirts in, and cargo pants make it look like you carry tater tots in your pockets.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. This was not sponsored by Cotton, the fabric of our kniiiives

Jeans are the worst form of pants - except for all the others

 

[tgfencer]

I don't know about in the US, but in Europe most entry level induction and electric ranges use touch-buttons on the top of the range to select the burner and increase/decrease heat, which are slow and a pain to adjust, especially if you need to do two at once because you can't. If manufacturers just used physical dials or knobs to adjust heat levels, my satisfaction levels would easily double.

As for cooking, I've used everything and don't really care either way. The quality of the build is more important to me than the energy source. That said, my sister is a professor and has been researching indoor air pollution for over a decade all across the world and has pretty strong opinions on gas/fire/any kind of indoor burning for heating or cooking, so I guess if I were buying a range today I'd skip the gas.

 

[Michi]

I don't know about in the US, but in Europe most entry level induction and electric ranges use touch-buttons on the top of the range to select the burner and increase/decrease heat, which are slow and a pain to adjust, especially if you need to do two at once because you can't. If manufacturers just used physical dials or knobs to adjust heat levels, my satisfaction levels would easily double.

Yes. Solid state "glass buttons" are an ergonomic failure. No tactile feedback. Press a little off-center, and the button won't activate. Spill a few minor drops of liquid (hardly ever happens on a cooktop…), and a button will activate, or stop others from activating, or the entire cooktop will turn itself off because it concludes that there is a major boil-over.

The Touch Bar on Macbook Pros (fortunately, it's died the death it deserved now) is a particularly sterling example of design failure:

• I cannot use a button on the Touch Bar without looking at it because there is no tactile feedback.
• This is doubly true because, depending on the application that is in the foreground, the number, size, and function of the "buttons" changes. Sometimes, a button isn't even a button; instead, it can be a slider, as for the volume control.
• To use the Touch Bar, I have to break contact with the home keys on the keyboard and then find the home keys again.
• So, I have to break visual context with the screen because I need to look at the Touch Bar to use it, and I have to break tactile context with the keyboard to reach the "buttons". All that for functions that are easily accessible otherwise using the mouse pad, which I have to use all the time anyway. I have to break contact with the keyboard (for one hand) for that, too. But at least I'm allowed to keep my eyes on the screen.

I've never understood how this completely botched idea made it ever past the most basic usability testing…

 

[sumis]

non full-length trousers of any kind is fine for children.
wearing shorts after 16 should be banned (outside swimming and muay thai).

.

 

[M1k3]

non full-length trousers of any kind is fine for children.
wearing shorts after 16 should be banned (outside swimming and muay thai).

.

Says the person that's never been near the equator.

 

[tgfencer]

Yes. Solid state "glass buttons" are an ergonomic failure. No tactile feedback. Press a little off-center, and the button won't activate. Spill a few minor drops of liquid (hardly ever happens on a cooktop…), and a button will activate, or stop others from activating, or the entire cooktop will turn itself off because it concludes that there is a major boil-over.

Literally this exact scenario happened to my wife yesterday, when she called out from the kitchen to me to tell me the stove wasn't working. A bit of moisture or oil made all the buttons not detect her finger. Whatever idiots designed and approved this idea into mass production should have been fired.

 

[sumis]

Personally, I've grown used to my electric (flat ceramic) cooktop.

considering your output/input in the what's-cooking-thread, this should not be possible! making great food, technically well executed, must be impossible on anything but gas or commercial grade induction. (just like the quality of what lands on the plate surely will suffer if your cooking vessel is 3 mm rather than 4 mm thick.)

.

 

[Michi]

must be impossible on anything but gas or commercial grade induction.

Yeah, right The best pork roast of my entire life (it will never be replicated) was made in a wood-fired oven from the turn of the (previous) century.

I do agree that good tools help. That's why I own Japanese knives. But no tool will make me a better cook, only a more cheerful and more efficient one.

 

[spaceconvoy]

Also: Jeans are terrible pants. They are good at making your dump truck look good and that’s about it.

that's it?? that's everything! you just made my case for why jeans are the best pants

 

[ian]

Literally this exact scenario happened to my wife yesterday, when she called out from the kitchen to me to tell me the stove wasn't working. A bit of moisture or oil made all the buttons not detect her finger. Whatever idiots designed and approved this idea into mass production should have been fired.

My old vent hood had those kind of buttons. Would always be impossible to turn it on if there was steam coming up from the stove. Major fail.

 

[mengwong]

Soon there won’t be any buttons on the cooker at all … you’ll have to download the app.

 

[Michi]

Soon there won’t be any buttons on the cooker at all … you’ll have to download the app.

This would be funny, if it weren't so true.

I am at the point where I will not buy anything that requires an app to operate (such as the Joule sous vide stick). The life time of that appliance is exactly as long as the willingness of the manufacturer to keep maintaining an app for a product they sold me years ago.

The whole IoT thing is (and always was) a stupid idea. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. For example, I feel for all the people who bought computer games that no longer work. Not because they won't run anymore, but because they phone home, and the server that is supposed to answer is no longer there.

 

[wcothran]

Agreed. Seems like IOT devices are often solving imaginary problems

 

[Jovidah]

If I could build a perfect 4 burner stove, 3 would be induction and 1 would be gas just to solve the meat searing problem.

For me... 2 big double-ring burners for saute, frying, etc... and the rest can be induction (I think 2 would be enough). I prefer gas for proper high heat stuff due to the ability to tilt the pan, lift the pan, etc without losing the heat, but for anything around boiling temperature or simmering induction is great. For low temp stuff it's arguably better than gas IMO.

I don't know about in the US, but in Europe most entry level induction and electric ranges use touch-buttons on the top of the range to select the burner and increase/decrease heat, which are slow and a pain to adjust, especially if you need to do two at once because you can't. If manufacturers just used physical dials or knobs to adjust heat levels, my satisfaction levels would easily double.

Oh god yes the buttons... it's so horrible. Just give me a damn dial instead!

Yes. Solid state "glass buttons" are an ergonomic failure. No tactile feedback. Press a little off-center, and the button won't activate. Spill a few minor drops of liquid (hardly ever happens on a cooktop…), and a button will activate, or stop others from activating, or the entire cooktop will turn itself off because it concludes that there is a major boil-over.

They're incredibly unsatisfying to use...they're outright slow and cumbersome... It's mindboggling that they're still the standard. Even though it doesn't really change the functionality of the stove much it does really make them annoying to use.

non full-length trousers of any kind is fine for children.
wearing shorts after 16 should be banned (outside swimming and muay thai).

.

This message was brought to you by the Taliban Ministry of Fashion...

I don't have a problem with jeans...but what does strike me as somewhat weird is that 100+ year old work pants are still somehow fashionable and the norm. And why is mainstream fashion still mostly stuck with cotton? Material development moved on since then...there's much better materials out there that are far comfier.... Admittedly half my clothes are cotton too simply because it's cheap but frankly price is just about the only good thing about cotton.

 

[mengwong]

Oh god yes the buttons... it's so horrible. Just give me a damn dial instead!

They are in the minority, but they do exist.

https://performwireless.com/7-best-induction-cooktops-with-knobs/
I got a hybrid that puts a detachable knob on the glass surface:

 

[DitmasPork]

I hate electric but I feel like I would hate induction less. I'd probably opt for induction if I buy a house.

My (Chinese) family + extended family always did wok cooking outdoors with a portable propane burner and I'd probably do that when I'm not in an apartment.

I much prefer gas ranges, but totally understand and agree with the arguments against gas stoves. For better or worse, change will happen—at some point the majority of people in the US will be driving electric cars and cooking on electric powered stoves.

I'm happy with my gas stove—the new law if passed in NY will not affect me, only newly built residences. Delighted to use gas for the time being. If I move to a new build apartment, I'll be fine cooking on induction or electric—the change won't have a negative affect the food I cook.