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btbyrd said:
Also, racism is racism. You can be a racist without being in a position of privilege or power. Racism doesn't have to reinforce power structures to count as racism. I've met people in academic circles who believe those things, but they're wrong and I've told them why they were wrong. I think the main reason they perpetuate that myth is so that they can turn their perceived victimhood into a "get out of racism free" card. But I digress...
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sansho said:
no. racism is racism.
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One word about this, which has been percolating in my mind for a while:

Let’s compare

1) stereotying based on nationality or race

2) stereotyping based on nationality or race, but where the stereotyped party is part of a disadvantaged minority.

For the purposes of this post, let’s assume that the content is similar in both cases, e.g. is a dismissive comment about personal appearance. I’m not going to discuss things like “Most Chinese people eat rice!” or “Many white Americans are wary of MSG!”

So, do you call both statements racism, or just 2)?

In a vacuum, it doesn’t matter. It’s useful to have words to describe both types of statements. The argument I see presented above in favor of calling 1) racism is “well, the word is race-ism, and 1) is an ism about race”, which is fine. However, the impact of 2) on the stereotyped party is much different than the impact of 1), since it’s more constant and builds upon existing feelings of exclusion and the memory of real harm. So, maybe it’s worth having a separate word for 2)? The argument for calling 2) racism, and not 1), is just that this is what most people think of when they think of the word.

In any case, I think that if you spend too much time defending 1) as “racism” then you risk minimizing the difference between 1) and 2), which is the real point here, definitions aside.
 
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ian said:
One word about this, which has been percolating in my mind for a while:

Let’s compare

1) stereotying based on nationality or race

2) stereotyping based on nationality or race, but where the stereotyped party is part of a disadvantaged minority.

For the purposes of this post, let’s assume that the content is similar in both cases, e.g. is a dismissive comment about personal appearance. I’m not going to discuss things like “Most Chinese people eat rice!” or “Many white Americans are wary of MSG!”

So, do you call both statements racism, or just 2)?

In a vacuum, it doesn’t matter. It’s useful to have words to describe both types of statements. The argument I see presented above in favor of calling 1) racism is “well, the word is race-ism, and 1) is an ism about race”, which is fine. However, the impact of 2) on the stereotyped party is much different than the impact of 1), since it’s more constant and builds upon existing feelings of exclusion and the memory of real harm. So, maybe it’s worth having a separate word for 2)? The argument for calling 2) racism, and not 1), is just that this is what most people think of when they think of the word.

In any case, I think that if you spend too much time defending 1) as “racism” then you risk minimizing the difference between 1) and 2), which is the real point here, definitions aside.
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You are exactly right. We already have language to deal with this. Racism is about structures of inequality that dehumanize and subjugate marginalized identities to preserve current hierarchies. Prejudice and discrimination are more general purpose words about applying preconceived generalizations not based on fact or reason to a situation or group of people or whatever. It is not racist for a white cis hetero (mostly) able bodied male citizen to say that lots of white people in the USA are scared of stuff that isn't white enough for them and that is a large part of the reason why they think Chinese restaurants will poison them with MSG while they drink gallons of MSG laden ranch dressing. However, in this case, I'm not engaging in prejudicial or discriminatory behavior because I have spent my life being a white person observing white people doing everything they can to preserve racist power structures while saying that they don't like racism.

Chinese food might seem like an odd place to stake a claim. But one of the foremost ways that I have observed white people reifying these structures linguistically is by arguing that talking about racism is racist. That identifying racist power structures in language and society is racist. And that attempts to dismantle racism are reverse racist. Nevermind the fact, that the argument has no more rational validity than the kindergarten quip, "I know you are but what am I?"

I will admit that talking about how there is a dominant racial class that gains benefits from unfair power dynamics in the way our entire society is constructed makes the people that have historically enjoyed those privileges uncomfortable. It might even make them feel guilty or angry or sad. I don't care. Just because it makes them squirm doesn't mean that it is "reverse racist." Or that reverse racism can even exist. The truth is, we have to talk about this stuff if we want the world to be more just and fair.
 
stringer said:
You are exactly right. We already have language to deal with this. Racism is about structures of inequality that dehumanize and subjugate marginalized identities to preserve current hierarchies. Prejudice and discrimination are more general purpose words about applying preconceived generalizations not based on fact or reason to a situation or group of people or whatever. It is not racist for a white cis hetero (mostly) able bodied male citizen to say that lots of white people in the USA are scared of stuff that isn't white enough for them and that is a large part of the reason why they think Chinese restaurants will poison them with MSG while they drink gallons of MSG laden ranch dressing. However, in this case, I'm not engaging in prejudicial or discriminatory behavior because I have spent my life being a white person observing white people doing everything they can to preserve racist power structures while saying that they don't like racism.

Chinese food might seem like an odd place to stake a claim. But one of the foremost ways that I have observed white people reifying these structures linguistically is by arguing that talking about racism is racist. That identifying racist power structures in language and society is racist. And that attempts to dismantle racism are reverse racist. Nevermind the fact, that the argument has no more rational validity than the kindergarten quip, "I know you are but what am I?"

I will admit that talking about how there is a dominant racial class that gains benefits from unfair power dynamics in the way our entire society is constructed makes the people that have historically enjoyed those privileges uncomfortable. It might even make them feel guilty or angry or sad. I don't care. Just because it makes them squirm doesn't mean that it is "reverse racist." Or that reverse racism can even exist. The truth is, we have to talk about this stuff if we want the world to be more just and fair.
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Out of genuine interest, in your opinion can a person if a given race not be racist towards said race? (I might have read incorrectly into the part about white cis male)

Just to inject some fun:

 
ian said:
In any case, I think that if you spend too much time defending 1) as “racism” then you risk minimizing the difference between 1) and 2), which is the real point here, definitions aside.
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… as well as raising the question: exactly why do you feel it is so important to assert or defend 1) ?

.
 
The R word has been dropped, I fear this thread is not long for this world and will be following in the footsteps of the Covid thread.

I must disgorge my opinions while it lives.

Cilantro is a terrible herb and proof that god exists and he hates us. It doesn’t taste of soap, it just tastes gag worthy. It’s ok if it’s used extremely sparingly (if you can see it, it’s too much) to blend with the other flavors but people tend to use it as a garnish which is horrible. Corianders aight though.

Raw onions are not fit for human consumption. If you’re putting them on a burger then stop being an animal and caramelize them. If you put them in a salad you probably put salad dressing on taco salad.

Sausage gravy is amazing if done right and served hot, and horrifying concrete if not made right. The folks I’ve met out in WV who grew up with it apparently can’t tell the difference.

Butter boards seem like a really gross idea. With how porous wood is the last thing I want is to rub a piece of bread over a fat that’s been left to sit and soak up residuals.

TikTok/youtube shorts have done terrible things for cooking videos. They all are cut for folks with extreme unmedicated ADHD who can’t watch something longer than 30 seconds and the only explanation for the video requires you to open other videos or read the description. I’m watching the video to learn first and be entertained second, stop making me put extra work to figure out what you made the freaking video about.

Guy fieri killed the food network. It used to be about cooking and food, now it’s about 30 minutes cooking challenges. That’s probably why shows like the great British bake-off exploded in the US because people are tired of cut throat competition on the goddamn food network.

Just about every YouTube chef loses their magic once they grow large enough to be a recognizable name. Guga, Weissman, babish. Not sure if it’s running out of content or tweaking content to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

People tend to **** on American cuisine unnecessarily. There’s a pretty tremendous amount of food variety, and local specialties. The country is just bigger than Europe, and came about when faster transportation was becoming a thing. The next village does have a unique specialty, it’s just the ‘next village’ in the US happens to be 2 hours away instead of 20 minutes.

Food traditions are generally silly and worth little. Food should stop at a plateau because someone’s great grandfather declared that to be the ultimate fashion, food should continue to the asymptote of flavor perfection, like how all of life continues to evolve into crabs. Also I haven’t found an Italian dish that isn’t improved by garlic, Alfredo included.

DitmasPork said:
View attachment 216718
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I also stared at this for about 30 seconds before I realized it was the message I was waiting to load, and not just an ad.
 
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Naftoor said:
The R word has been dropped, I fear this thread is not long for this world and will be following in the footsteps of the Covid thread.

I must disgorge my opinions while it lives.

Cilantro is a terrible herb and proof that god exists and he hates us. It doesn’t taste of soap, or just tastes gag worthy. It’s ok if it’s used extremely sparingly (if you can see it, it’s too much) to blend with the other flavors but people tend to use it as a garnish which is horrible. Corianders aight though.

Raw onions are not fit for human consumption. If you’re putting them on a burger then stop being an animal and caramelize them. If you put them in a salad you probably put salad dressing on taco salad.

Sausage gravy is amazing if done right and served hot, and horrifying concrete if not made right. The folks I’ve met out in WV who grew up with it apparently can’t tell the difference.

Butter boards seem like a really gross idea. With how porous wood is the last thing I want is to rub a piece of bread over a fat that’s been left to sit and soak up residuals.

TikTok/youtube shorts have done terrible things for cooking videos. They all are cut for folks with extreme unmedicated ADHD who can’t watch something longer than 30 seconds and the only explanation for the video requires you to open other videos or read the description. I’m watching the video to learn first and be entertained second, stop making me put extra work to figure out what you made the freaking video about.

Guy fieri killed the food network. It used to be about cooking and food, now it’s about 30 minutes cooking challenges. That’s probably why shows like the great British bake-off exploded in the US because people are tired of cut throat competition on the goddamn food network.

Just about every YouTube chef loses their magic once they grow large enough to be a recognizable name. Guga, Weissman, babish. Not sure if it’s running out of content or tweaking content to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

People tend to **** on American cuisine unnecessarily. There’s a pretty tremendous amount of food variety, and local specialties. The country is just bigger than Europe, and came about when faster transportation was becoming a thing. The next village does have a unique specialty, it’s just the ‘next village’ in the US happens to be 2 hours away instead of 20 minutes.

Food traditions are generally silly and worth little. Food should stop at a plateau because someone’s great grandfather declared that to be the ultimate fashion, food should continue to the asymptote of flavor perfection, like how all of life continues to evolve into crabs. Also I haven’t found an Italian dish that isn’t improved by garlic, Alfredo included.


I also stared at this for about 30 seconds before I realized it was the message I was waiting to load, and not just an ad.
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You started so well with the first few of your opinions being unpopular and just wrong, but then you started making a lot of sense and ruined it…..
 
Naftoor said:
Food traditions are generally silly and worth little. Food should stop at a plateau because someone’s great grandfather declared that to be the ultimate fashion, food should continue to the asymptote of flavor perfection, like how all of life continues to evolve into crabs. Also I haven’t found an Italian dish that isn’t improved by garlic, Alfredo included.
Click to expand...

There is something to this (except the garlic part, not gonna put that stuff on my Panettone, for example), but there is a strong counterargument. My culinary perspective is mostly Chinese, and there are dishes that have survived for centuries in an extremely competitive environment. They have survived for good reasons, usually (and bad reasons, sometimes). I get really sick of reading things like "Oh I made Bon Bon Chicken but I didn't have Sichuan peppercorns so I used black pepper." In no conceivable way did you make Bon Bon Chicken, because you cut the essence out of what made the dish great. You made something worse, and stole the name of a great dish to tag it.

We could probably agree that, once you have made the original of something properly, and shown that you get it, feel free to riff on it from there, with suitable disclaimers.
 
spaceconvoy said:
while people love to change the subject when racism comes up
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Well, it is a pointless discussion in the form that it is being conducted. This is not the place for it. Moreover, as has been pointed out a few times MSG attitude that sort of started it is not limited to one group of people.
 
Naftoor said:
The R word has been dropped, I fear this thread is not long for this world and will be following in the footsteps of the Covid thread.

I must disgorge my opinions while it lives.

Cilantro is a terrible herb and proof that god exists and he hates us. It doesn’t taste of soap, it just tastes gag worthy. It’s ok if it’s used extremely sparingly (if you can see it, it’s too much) to blend with the other flavors but people tend to use it as a garnish which is horrible. Corianders aight though.

Raw onions are not fit for human consumption. If you’re putting them on a burger then stop being an animal and caramelize them. If you put them in a salad you probably put salad dressing on taco salad.

Sausage gravy is amazing if done right and served hot, and horrifying concrete if not made right. The folks I’ve met out in WV who grew up with it apparently can’t tell the difference.

Butter boards seem like a really gross idea. With how porous wood is the last thing I want is to rub a piece of bread over a fat that’s been left to sit and soak up residuals.

TikTok/youtube shorts have done terrible things for cooking videos. They all are cut for folks with extreme unmedicated ADHD who can’t watch something longer than 30 seconds and the only explanation for the video requires you to open other videos or read the description. I’m watching the video to learn first and be entertained second, stop making me put extra work to figure out what you made the freaking video about.

Guy fieri killed the food network. It used to be about cooking and food, now it’s about 30 minutes cooking challenges. That’s probably why shows like the great British bake-off exploded in the US because people are tired of cut throat competition on the goddamn food network.

Just about every YouTube chef loses their magic once they grow large enough to be a recognizable name. Guga, Weissman, babish. Not sure if it’s running out of content or tweaking content to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

People tend to **** on American cuisine unnecessarily. There’s a pretty tremendous amount of food variety, and local specialties. The country is just bigger than Europe, and came about when faster transportation was becoming a thing. The next village does have a unique specialty, it’s just the ‘next village’ in the US happens to be 2 hours away instead of 20 minutes.

Food traditions are generally silly and worth little. Food should stop at a plateau because someone’s great grandfather declared that to be the ultimate fashion, food should continue to the asymptote of flavor perfection, like how all of life continues to evolve into crabs. Also I haven’t found an Italian dish that isn’t improved by garlic, Alfredo included.


I also stared at this for about 30 seconds before I realized it was the message I was waiting to load, and not just an ad.
Click to expand...

We agree and disagree but either way, I 1000% support your intent!

:)
 
Justinv said:
Nothing tastes good after soaking in rum.
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I agree! Even nothing tastes good after soaking it in rum!

But seriously, thats why I use armagnac if I'm eating it straight or cognac if I'm cooking it. If you don't want to drink it, don't cook (or soak in this case) with it!
 
Sorry, have to share a proper opinion:
If you don’t like rum (but like brown liquor), try something by Foursquare, Mt Gay, Flor de Cana, or Appleton Estate.

Also, why the Armagnac/Cognac split?
 
Dan- said:
Sorry, have to share a proper opinion:
If you don’t like rum (but like brown liquor), try something by Foursquare, Mt Gay, Flor de Cana, or Appleton Estate.

Also, why the Armagnac/Cognac split?
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I find cognac a little harsh on my throat compared to armagnac. I drink armagnac, but I find most cognac's either too harsh or too boring. If I'm cooking, I don't need great quality because cooking makes it more mild.
 
rmrf said:
I find cognac a little harsh on my throat compared to armagnac. I drink armagnac, but I find most cognac's either too harsh or too boring. If I'm cooking, I don't need great quality because cooking makes it more mild.
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30 odd years ago I used to be able to walk into a tiny, dive of a bar named Adrian's in Mt. Home ID and without a word I'd get served up a Black Russian with a Courvoisier floater.

One of the bartenders made it up for me and damn it was good.

I miss that bar. :)
 
Cognac is my most used when cooking savory food. I have a modest price brand I really like for cooking. I’m getting a craving for steak au poive now…

I’ve tried spendy bottles of cognac for cooking and its not good due to not adding enough flavor (too smooth and mild). Some roughness is good for cooking. However, E&J brandy is just bad for cooking, you gotta aim higher than that.
 
TikTok food may suck compared to what else is out there but it's still leagues better than your average TGIF's so I think we've made some progress, at least. The real issue with TikTok/food youtube it is that when your audience is mostly folks who have never been exposed to good cooking you can just steal stuff and it will go viral. "Thousand layer potato" yeah ************ that's called Potato Pave and it aint new. BTW the person who started that is a trained chef and definitely knew of the original.

Also, Ethan Chlebowski. Guy literally only has a career because Samin Nostra wrote Salt Fat Acid Heat. Launch him into the sun. Just an absolute worthless existence and the world wouldn't be any better or worse if he just stopped making "content" (that word = 🤮)
 
tcmx3 said:
TikTok food may suck compared to what else is out there but it's still leagues better than your average TGIF's so I think we've made some progress, at least. The real issue with TikTok/food youtube it is that when your audience is mostly folks who have never been exposed to good cooking you can just steal stuff and it will go viral. "Thousand layer potato" yeah ************ that's called Potato Pave and it aint new. BTW the person who started that is a trained chef and definitely knew of the original.

Also, Ethan Chlebowski. Guy literally only has a career because Samin Nostra wrote Salt Fat Acid Heat. Launch him into the sun. Just an absolute worthless existence and the world wouldn't be any better or worse if he just stopped making "content" (that word = 🤮)
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I only go to TikTok to upload my Japanese knife inspired dance videos.
 
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