Upgrade from Misen 8 inch - Help

[MP998]

Hi Everyone,

I've been using the Misen 8 inch chef's knife since they first launched with the kickstarter and it served my well enough. I appreciated the ergonomics, how it would stay sharp and hold it's edge, lightness and just overall feel compared to the J.A Henckels I had been using previously. So much so that I purchased the Misen 2.0 a couple of years later which I never quite took to in the same way.

After all those years, that original Misen snapped in half on me! I'm thinking I'm ready for an upgrade and was looking for some advice.

I'm tempted by the 8 inch Zwilling Kramer as I see it's on sale now but I'm concerned about the upkeep of Carbon Steel. I'm sure my wife will grab it one day and forget to dry it in time or even put it in the sink! I'm also not sure if the shape of the knife will work for me but then again you can't know until you try it. From what I understand the Misen was a hybrid Gyuto with Aus-10 and since I liked that so much maybe I should go with Gyuto but try and get better steel.

Korin in NYC is local for me so I could go take a look at their Gyuto selection. I'm comfortable with spending around $300. I've never used a Japanese handle so I think I'd like to stick with western handles.

I like the idea of Carbon Steel but I'm just not sure if the upkeep is worth it for me. I would say the most important aspects I'm looking for are how it feels in hand, how well it can hold an edge (I don't sharpen myself and I loved how much longer the misen would stay sharp compared to that Henckel's) and being able to tackle any task I want that day.

I use a pinch grip and ultimately I would like to rely on this knife, for almost everything I can throw at it. Chopping, slicing and dicing vegetables, breaking down poultry, slicing meats, slicing fish etc. I use a combination of rocking but also push and pull. I don't want a knife that if I hit a bone, it'll break on me but something sharp enough that can satisfy all my needs. I realize that some trade-off's will have to be made but any help on where to go from here would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Go to Korin.

 

[AT5760]

Welcome! Go to Korin, handle some knives and listen to their recommendations. Carbon steel isn't that tough to maintain as long as you're willing to wash and dry your knives shortly after you finish using them.

I get the desire to use a knife like this as a "do it all," but for boning, an inexpensive boning knife would be a solid choice.

 

[instantramen]

MTC Kitchen is another great place to buy japanese knives in NY. They have a smaller selection of knives (still larger stock in-store than on their website) but can carry makers that are quite highly regarded like Yoshimi Kato, Sukenari, Takamura, Watanabe, etc. I've been to both MTC and Korin, and both are excellent.

 

[chiffonodd]

Definitely go check out Korin. If you want more specific recommendations in the meantime, you can fill out this questionnaire in a comment in this thread.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/new-knife-questionnaire.63548/

 

[refcast]

Definitely go to korin at the least

The korin inox gyuto is pretty good (the non premium one, or non inox honyaki one). Needs spine and choil rounding though. Compared to a misen I handled -- the handle is lighter, blade thinner, steel harder and tougher. As a baseline of how much to spend -- I wouldn't mind necessarily compared to getting the inox honyaki one of I were rougher on my knives.

 

[Benuser]

When trying a new knife, don't rely on your first impression. It often is false, as with a lot of things in life. It says more about what you're used to than what you're actually handling. If you're not used to often change knives, a slight difference in weight or balance may seem huge, as you're not used to unconsciously change your grip.
You have to get used to a new one, adapt your grip and perhaps fine-tune your technique. Stay for the time being with a middle-of-the-road before further exploring your preferences.

 

[MrHiggins]

The korin inox gyuto is pretty good

I bought my co-worker one of these last Christmas (the 210mm size). I took it out of the box and played with it a little before I gave it to her (don't tell on me!) I was impressed with the way it felt and the co-worker (a good home cook) loves it. You wouldn't go wrong with it. It's pretty, too.

Edit: This is the one I bought. It's the premium edition.

 

[Heckel7302]

Go to both MTC and Korin, see what jives with you. Personally I think the selection is more interesting at MTC. They often have stuff in stock in the store that isn’t listed on the website.

 

[Jovidah]

Yeah if you have the luxury of living close to physical stores I'd always take advantage of that. Allows you to actually feel some stuff in hand. I'd definitly fondle up some wa-handles too while you're there... who knows they might be up your alley.
As to carbons; I'm not sure how much they'd bring to the table for you if you're sticking to your 'no self-sharpening' mantra, since their main advantage is ease of sharpening. If you're just going to be sending them in you might be better off with some PM steel with high edge retention.

 

[rickbern]

How did the knife snap in half? That’s pretty unusual

 

[Jovidah]

Shows how good we all are at reading when you're the first one to pick up on that. I actually glossed over that too.
Yeah that is incredibly unusual to happen. Any pictures of the end result?

 

[esoo]

I'm tempted by the 8 inch Zwilling Kramer as I see it's on sale now but I'm concerned about the upkeep of Carbon Steel. I'm sure my wife will grab it one day and forget to dry it in time or even put it in the sink! I'm also not sure if the shape of the knife will work for me but then again you can't know until you try it. From what I understand the Misen was a hybrid Gyuto with Aus-10 and since I liked that so much maybe I should go with Gyuto but try and get better steel.

The ZKramer carbon knives are fairly easy to upkeep. The carbon steel - 52100 - is pretty tolerant to rust and as long as you end up keeping them dry for storage you should be fine.

I've had the 1.0 version of 8" and currently have the 10" and the 7" santoku. If you can get them at an aggressive price (say ~$200 for the 8"/santoku or <$275 for 10"), I would say they are decent value. They do very well on the steel, the distal taper and being robust for the non-knife nerd, but miss out on the performance of the grind that you start to see in that pricing on knives from Japan.

 

[nopomo]

Shows how good we all are at reading when you're the first one to pick up on that. I actually glossed over that too.
Yeah that is incredibly unusual to happen. Any pictures of the end result?

Wired magazine had one tested and found the hardness to vary wildly—51 HRC at the middle to 56 HRC at the tip.

 

[MP998]

Thank you all for the suggestions, I will try to go to Korin and MTC in person.

Regarding the Misen snapping, I was trying to thinly slice a semi hard cheese on a bias and it just snapped. I couldn't believe it myself. I would say the break was more about 3/4 of the way down. I should have taken a picture but didn't think about it before disposing of it. I guess I applied too much downward pressure on the blade horizontally trying to get a thin slice but then again it didn't feel like it at the time. I'd had the knife for years without any chipping or issues otherwise.

I'm not entirely opposed to sharpening myself. I tried to sharpen the Misen with the sharpening stone from them initially but never felt like I was doing good enough of a job. I need to find somewhere to learn in person and I'd give it another shot. To be honest, I've been disappointed with a lot of sharpening services and even took that Misen to Korin for sharpening but at $25/knife before any discounts it's too expensive.

 

[Nemo]

I'd be reluctant to advise using a knife made of thin, hard steel for anything involving bone contact, even chicken bones.

 

[Just a DK]

I'd be reluctant to advise using a knife made of thin, hard steel for anything involving bone contact, even chicken bones.

Yeah... read description as needs to be able to thinly slice sushi but also be able to chop firewood for my fireplace...

I would say no to Japanese knives... but would probably highly recommend the soft steel French knives that can take massive abuse and can take a new edge with just a honing rod for delicate tasks...

 

[MP998]

Yeah... read description as needs to be able to thinly slice sushi but also be able to chop firewood for my fireplace...

I would say no to Japanese knives... but would probably highly recommend the soft steel French knives that can take massive abuse and can take a new edge with just a honing rod for delicate tasks...

I’m aware some trade offs will have to be made.

As long as I know the knife’s limitations I can adjust my expectations accordingly. Versatility would be nice be it’s not an end all.

Which ones are the French knives ?

 

[Just a DK]

I’m aware some trade offs will have to be made.

As long as I know the knife’s limitations I can adjust my expectations accordingly. Versatility would be nice be it’s not an end all.

Which ones are the French knives ?

My wife loves and uses the K Sabatiers.

 

[Benuser]

My wife loves and uses the K Sabatiers.

The carbons? Very soft, taking great edges but require a lot of maintenance. The stainless? Very soft as well, much softer than the Germans of the same steel, hardly taking any edge. For both: unpredictable Fit&Finish, common warps and bents. Horrible factory edge. The carbons can be fun as project knives. The OP doesn't even sharpen.

 

[esoo]

Now that I've re-read that the OP doesn't sharpen, I'm going to take flak for this but something in VG-10 is probably the best choice. Sure us knife nerds hate it for the way it sharpens, but it stays functionally sharp for a long time for someone who doesn't sharpen. Just don't take it through a bone and your fine. Add in a Victorinox boning knife to break down a chicken and you're pretty good.

 

[drrayeye]

Please keep in mind that this is your personal decision--it must work for you. Japanese thin artisan knives are exquisite, but may not provide the full range of uses faced by the home cook. I have some, but rely on ruggedized softer steel knives for certain tasks. It's the thinner artisan knives that you'll mostly see at places like Korin.

The Kramers. Shuns, and Miyabi lines are all designed with Western home cooks in mind. Shun sharpens for free and will likely replace a damaged knife like your Misen. Those lines are shown at Williams Sonoma and/or Sur La Table--where you may be able to test them out on a carrot. They can be found at much reduced prices on EBAY.

 

[Benuser]

Now that I've re-read that the OP doesn't sharpen, I'm going to take flak for this but something in VG-10 is probably the best choice. Sure us knife nerds hate it for the way it sharpens, but it stays functionally sharp for a long time for someone who doesn't sharpen. Just don't take it through a bone and your fine. Add in a Victorinox boning knife to break down a chicken and you're pretty good.

Good idea. By the way: sharpening a Hattori VG-10 is no problem at all.

 

[rickbern]

Everyone here, EVERYONE, has a knife we call a beater that hacks through bones, hard cheese, squash. You’ll have fanboys tell you to use your best knives on squash and I do, but if you’ve snapped a blade do yourself a favor and get a 25 buck Mercer at a restaurant supply store and then get whatever feels right to you and use it on veggies and boneless meat

The fancy knife on the top may come and go (although, for the nerds, it may be a keeper), but the beater on the bottom I’ve had for almost thirty years and it’s going nowhere in my lifetime

 

[MP998]

Everyone here, EVERYONE, has a knife we call a beater that hacks through bones, hard cheese, squash. You’ll have fanboys tell you to use your best knives on squash and I do, but if you’ve snapped a blade do yourself a favor and get a 25 buck Mercer at a restaurant supply store and then get whatever feels right to you and use it on veggies and boneless meat

The fancy knife on the top may come and go (although, for the nerds, it may be a keeper), but the beater on the bottom I’ve had for almost thirty years and it’s going nowhere in my lifetime View attachment 287745

That’s a good perspective

I can certainly use that original Henckels or the Misen 2.0 as a beater.

 

[rickbern]

If I snapped a misen, I would tend not to want to use it for those kinds of tasks

 

[Matt Jacobs]

Beater knife is the way. Plus you can use it to refine your sharpening skills, reshape bolsters, thin etc. I keep an old thinned Sabtier for cheese, hard salami, hard squash, bones etc. I dont use it often anymore but I will always keep it. Then go local and pic something you really like.

 

[TonyZ]

Get a beater and a nice fancy knife. Wash and maintain your knife yourself. If you don't want someone using it, keep the beater in an obvious location and keep the nice one in a drawer away from prying eyes.

Also the best part of nice knives is having them be sharp all the time. Before buying a new fancy knife, I definitely recommend learning to sharpen! It makes upkeep a lot less scary imo.

 

[MP998]

Fair enough although I’d gone a good stretch with it before that happened

If I snapped a misen, I would tend not to want to use it for those kinds of tasks

 

[Jovidah]

Yeah I second the suggestion of just having a beater knife for the more heavy duty abusive jobs. That way you can tailor your 'good' knife towards actual cutting performance.