all-purpose fish and poultry knife? (honesuki, funayuki)

[Choppin]

Yes I'm looking for an excuse to buy a different knife

I don't own any deba, honesuki, garasuki, funayuki, etc. As a home cook I don't process enough fish or chicken to justify having a dedicated knife for each animal, although I do miss a specialized knife on those occasions.

So I was considering one knife that could handle it all: mostly breaking down small birds (chicken, duck) and small fish (the oily ones mostly). I guess this is the opposite of Japanese single bevel knife philosophy (specialized tool for each task), but anyway...

Would a funayuki or honesuki make sense here? Very different profiles so IDK... I was thinking Toyama or Heiji for the latter. Or maybe just get a cheap small deba + a cheap small honesuki?

thanks!

 

[daveb]

I googled "justify" and could not find any relevance for kitchen knives...

That said I would rather use a small deba for poultry than use a honesuki for fish. Cheap single bevels are usually very cheap.

 

[rickbern]

I doubt I would go anywhere near a fish with my honesuki but I find a small tough knife that’s not afraid of bones super useful around the kitchen for things like lamb legs/racks and pork ribs, as well as chicken and duck. Even helpful around a turkey.

Never had a deba so I can’t really comment

 

[enrico]

If I was a righty, I'd love to try those Toyama honesuki and garasuki on JNS. They seem like more hybrid deba's and I have a feeling it could handle a lot from fish to poultry.

 

[Choppin]

I love this forum - I start a thread looking for 1 knife and 3
posts later I’m convinced I actually need 2

but like Dave said these are cheap and I can learn single bevel sharpening/polishing… should be fun

@daveb what size deba are we talking about? I’m thinking maybe 130-160 but have no reference

@rickbern thats exactly what I’m after - just a tough knife to work around bones in general but something more fun that western soft stainless. what size is your honesuki? a Heiji 165 (150 edge) is in my mind

@enrico l the Toyama honesuki is also calling me. grind looks thin enough for quick veg prep, like “one knife out for chicken soup”

munetoshi all arounder could be a one-knife-option I guess

 

[blokey]

There's people using deba on chicken and honesuki fish, the later I see a lot.

 

[blokey]

Tho for a super utility knife I'd for a 150-180mm petty.

 

[simona]

I bought a

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-ajikiri-120mm/
mostly to try the steel and teach myself some bevel polishing.

It's a very very good little knife, perfect size for a 500g/1lb mackerel. Have not tried it on birds yet, but my chef brain says it would be good for medium sized chickens, ducks, quails, pigeons.

 

[daveb]

@daveb what size deba are we talking about? I’m thinking maybe 130-160 but have no reference

150mm is smallest with any utility for fish market sized fish or flats fish. A 165 will work well with whole salmon, redfish, speck trout and other Fl flats species. 180 will do well with salmon or deep water fish but will be a little large for any flats fish. I would rather use a smaller deba on a larger fish than a bigger deba on a smaller fish. What kind of fish do you break down?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I like a thin tip for poultry so I'm sure I wouldn't like a deba for the task and would just opt for a petty if I didn't have a honesuki. Get a honesuki and next thing you know, you might be breaking down more and more chickens.

 

[Choppin]

Tho for a super utility knife I'd for a 150-180mm petty.

but I already have 4 of those… need a different knife

actually my petties are all thin BTE and I’ve been using them for this application but I’m always nervous of chipping the edge

@daveb I work mostly with small oily fish like sardines, mackerel, occasionally something just a bit bigger. a 150-180 petty is doing the job now so I guess a 150 deba is optimal (or even the 120 Mune like @simona mentioned… those are cute AF)

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

FWIW, Bernal Cutlery usually has a pretty good selection of honesuki and generally have some pretty reasonably priced stuff. Any of the SK steel options are nice.

 

[blokey]

but I already have 4 of those… need a different knife

actually my petties are all thin BTE and I’ve been using them for this application but I’m always nervous of chipping the edge

@daveb I work mostly with small oily fish like sardines, mackerel, occasionally something just a bit bigger. a 150-180 petty is doing the job now so I guess a 150 deba is optimal (or even the 120 Mune like @simona mentioned… those are cute AF)

Maybe a sabaki? Basically just fat petty.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...uchi-sabaki-bocho?_pos=1&_sid=cc099ed09&_ss=rhttps://knifejapan.com/kono-uchihamono-sabaki-bocho-120mm/https://knifejapan.com/okahide-hamono-polished-sabaki-bocho-140mm/

 

[blokey]

Or these things over here, they are fun
https://jendeindustries.com/kitchen-knives/master-kuo-knives/g-series-fish-butchering-knives.html

 

[deltaplex]

I'd add another one you can source through Michael:

https://knifejapan.com/ikenami-hamono-bannou-180mm-shirogami-1/(also comes in 150 and 130)

I'm about 80% of the way taking mine full convex from concave, but it's a blast and will handle pretty much everything you throw at it after a little bit of tuning to your liking.

 

[btbyrd]

For the fish that you cut, I'd get a honesuki as your all around fish/poultry knife.

 

[Seemore]

Takeo Murata also makes sabaki. Three vendors, various sizes:

https://cuttingedgeknives.co.uk/search?type=product,article,page&q=Sabaki+
Murata Boho 120mm Sabiki in Blue #1 with Magnolia Wa Handle

CKTG

 

[Choppin]

I'd add another one you can source through Michael:

https://knifejapan.com/ikenami-hamono-bannou-180mm-shirogami-1/(also comes in 150 and 130)

I'm about 80% of the way taking mine full convex from concave, but it's a blast and will handle pretty much everything you throw at it after a little bit of tuning to your liking.

how do you like yours? I was actually considering this one but for other use - more like a 180 santoku or gyuto, for all around prep including vegetables.

how thick is the grind? goes well through dense stuff?

 

[daveb]

150mm robust petty? How bout a hankotsu?

Edit, was typing too slow - just saw Brandon's post. He may be right!

 

[coxhaus]

I only use a filet knife for fish unless I am cutting fish for sushi. For chicken not so sure. Maybe a short filet knife. I can use a filet knife to cut a chicken breast in half lengthwise.

 

[blokey]

I only use a filet knife for fish unless I am cutting fish for sushi. For chicken not so sure. Maybe a short filet knife. I can use a filet knife to cut a chicken breast in half lengthwise.

Actually a good suggestion, Butcher Harner is doing a butch of knives, maybe ask him about a boning or fillet knife, I'm on order with him.

 

[blokey]

Also

 

[deltaplex]

how do you like yours? I was actually considering this one but for other use - more like a 180 santoku or gyuto, for all around prep including vegetables.

how thick is the grind? goes well through dense stuff?

I love it, I find many pettys just a little too short for comfortable board work and a little too thin near the handle, this little thing solves both of those problems. They come with concave bevels, not thick, but not near nail flexing behind the edge. Here's a little bit of the progression:

It did get tipped while I was working out the concavity on the bevels

So I've got a little bit of profiling work on the tip, a little bit of thinning on the front 1/3, fully getting the concavity out and tuning in the convexity, and then some polishing. (Plus handle work and maybe a KU refresh down the road). Hasn't hesitated at anything I've thrown at it, and I use it for fish/fowl, veg, herbs, etc.

 

[blokey]

I like than Bannon shape too, I got the Kono Uchigamono one tho. Michael also recommended Minomo and Okubo to be, seems they have better grind. double bevel Funayuki could also be nice.

 

[Choppin]

I love it, I find many pettys just a little too short for comfortable board work and a little too thin near the handle, this little thing solves both of those problems. They come with concave bevels, not thick, but not near nail flexing behind the edge. Here's a little bit of the progression:

View attachment 235616View attachment 235617
It did get tipped while I was working out the concavity on the bevels
View attachment 235618View attachment 235619View attachment 235620

So I've got a little bit of profiling work on the tip, a little bit of thinning on the front 1/3, fully getting the concavity out and tuning in the convexity, and then some polishing. (Plus handle work and maybe a KU refresh down the road). Hasn't hesitated at anything I've thrown at it, and I use it for fish/fowl, veg, herbs, etc.

looks good! thinner grind than I expected, which is great...

 

[Choppin]

I like than Bannon shape too, I got the Kono Uchigamono one tho. Michael also recommended Minomo and Okubo to be, seems they have better grind. double bevel Funayuki could also be nice.

I was thinking about the Okubo 170 santoku as well (just for general prep, not the use we are discussing here). how do you like the Kono?

 

[Ochazuke]

Not sure if this helps given all the comments already but for my home cooking I usually just use a sabaki for both whole chicken and small fish.

At work I use a honesuki, deba, ajikiri, and sakekiri but for home a sabaki does most boning work for small fish, bird, and game with no problems.

I subscribe to both camps and at work have way more knives than is healthy or sane, but at home only really use two.

 

[blokey]

I was thinking about the Okubo 170 santoku as well (just for general prep, not the use we are discussing here). how do you like the Kono?

really good, slightly concave but not much, I thinned it to a nail flexing pretty quicky, it's already thin but still on the all purpose side. The steel feels nice on stone, hard and crisp. I sold it tho and kind regret it.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/kono-uchigamono-150mm-touku-sei-santoku.62613/

 

[Jovidah]

Western filleting knife or boning knife? Works well for me. Does great on fish, and honestly anything that has a good tip will do good on chicken too.

 

[Choppin]

Maybe a sabaki? Basically just fat petty.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...uchi-sabaki-bocho?_pos=1&_sid=cc099ed09&_ss=rhttps://knifejapan.com/kono-uchihamono-sabaki-bocho-120mm/https://knifejapan.com/okahide-hamono-polished-sabaki-bocho-140mm/

thanks guys, I think a sabaki would fit the bill nicely. it’s description is literally what I’m looking for. then later I can get a honesuki or deba if I feel I need something more specialized

@blokey I liked that Kono, just wondering if 120mm is enough for chicken? for small fish (sardines, mackerel) it sure is