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spaceconvoy said:
It's not about the quality of her knives or fairness of her pricing. It's about how often she's randomly brought up in completely unrelated discussions, and how the focus is often on her, not her knives. And no, memes don't "just happen"

TF has become a meme here because of the small but zealous circle of people who recommend them enthusiastically while brushing aside their shortcomings. And probably bolstered by his high prices and how seriously he presents himself.

I haven't done a study but I feel relatively confident to claim that literally no one here has ever recommended CM's knives. No one seems to ask about them either. But somehow she just keeps popping up in unrelated conversations for some mysterious reason 🤔
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No one ever recommended her knives because they were complete and utter unpractical ugly garbage. Yet priced at the level of high end customs. So yeah.. she's kinda the running joke because anyone who had a look at her knives is painfully aware that she's only able to sell junk like that at such a price because she has tits and some people are uninformed idiots. If she was a guy she'd probably never have breached out of anonimity making what she makes...

And that's sad because it took attention away from far better knifemakers that could have been put in the spotlight instead of her - regardless of what their gender may happen to be.
Sorry, but using CM-bashing as an example of sexism is just outright ridiculous. It's like calling someone mysogynist for calling a porn actress promiscuous.
 
Slim278 said:
Discussing sex drive is creepy?
It is basic sales 101.
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I was just poking fun. I am sure for some they live their life where sex drive does dictate every action, I personally believe that we can evolve beyond that. This is a philosophical question that has been debated for millennia and I cannot disprove your point. With that said I’m not sure I would want my daughter on this forum/thread after a comment like that
 
Jovidah said:
No one ever recommended her knives because they were complete and utter unpractical ugly garbage. Yet priced at the level of high end customs. So yeah.. she's kinda the running joke because anyone who had a look at her knives is painfully aware that she's only able to sell junk like that at such a price because she has tits and some people are uninformed idiots. If she was a guy she'd probably never have breached out of anonimity making what she makes...

And that's sad because it took attention away from far better knifemakers that could have been put in the spotlight instead of her - regardless of what their gender may happen to be.
Sorry, but using CM-bashing as an example of sexism is just outright ridiculous. It's like calling someone mysogynist for calling a porn actress promiscuous.
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I think almost everyone agrees that her knives do not look appealing, and that it’s crazy that she gets $800 a knife for them. I’d be interested to see if there were some other examples of knives (say, made my men) at that price point where the knives looked similarly unappealing. I don’t remember any, but then again, I don’t keep tabs on makers that make crap looking knives.

But that’s not @spaceconvoy’s point. He’s commenting on the crazy frequency with which she’s referenced (it’s a lot!), and the often sexual nature of the comments. You could say that she’s only getting the attention because she’s an attractive woman, but it’s not like she’s posing with her knives in lingerie or something, so when someone references her and then takes it in a sexual direction, that’s their choice, it’s not about anything she’s done. The pic on her website is appealing, perhaps, but it’s just a picture of her. She’s a knife maker who’s an attractive woman and who has good marketing skills, but there are a huge number of posts on the site that talk about her sexually, and that’s what @spaceconvoy’s talking about.
 
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ian said:
I think almost everyone agrees that her knives do not look appealing, and that it’s crazy that she gets $800 a knife for them. I’d be interested to see if there were some other examples of knives (say, made my men) at that price point where the knives looked similarly unappealing. I don’t remember any, but then again, I don’t keep tabs on makers that make crap looking knives.
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For your edification. No idea what Willey charges for his choppers, but whatever it is its too much. Adding cleavage to the mix won't make them anymore appealing.
 
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Jovidah said:
Sorry, but using CM-bashing as an example of sexism is just outright ridiculous. It's like calling someone mysogynist for calling a porn actress promiscuous.
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it's rare I agree with SpaceConvoy, but in this case he is 100% right.

the reaction CM gets is disproportionate in the extreme and a lot of it is outright gross/sexual in nature. whatever story you want to tell yourself that somehow excuses that behavior I cant stop you from doing, but it will never actually excuse the behavior SC is (rightly) calling out.
 
I also think some of the CM stuff has been gross, sexual, and inappropriate. She's a polarizing figure, but she doesn't deserve that and I think less of people who engage in that kind of behavior on the forum. Whether or not the general criticism of her work is extremely disproportionate is another matter. I cannot think of another (kitchen) knifemaker who has garnered such an extreme amount of fawning and uncritical press attention with such a... questionable product. Search for her knives on YouTube, and you'll find features from Popular Mechanics, Eater, Wired, Buzzfeed, Boomburg, Business Insider, Eater, and a host of other outlets. There's no footage from actual customers using her product. It's insane. I think most (but not all) of the criticism is a proportional backlash against this rather than being motivated by gross sexism or misogyny or whatever.

That said, some of the comments are beyond the pale, and there are moments on this forum where it becomes clear that there are leering, scummy, bro-dudes in our midst. This makes it seem like even more of a boys' club than it already did (which is saying something, given the pissing contests that sometimes go on here). Sometimes the behavior is so bad that it justly prompts the ban-hammer. Other times it's more mild and gets passed over without getting mentioned. None of this is unique to this forum, and it's present (to some extent) on all the enthusiast forums that I've been a part of. Two of them even recently changed their names to try to make them more friendly to women (or at least less off-putting). But those changes are only cosmetic. It wasn't the name of the forums keeping women away.
 
I know I've poked fun at CM a time or two hundred. What sex the maker has no bearing on my opinion on how ugly the knives are though. I have no experience on how they actually perform though.
 
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Want to have your mind blown? Look up TPK Knives on YouTube. I don't know if she (and I think her boyfriend/hubby) still does but when I was first learned of it on another forum, she/they had an eBay store with a backlog!

And speaking of slimy sales tactics, I'm a big fan of the "Ooooo you heathens! You can't appreciate the deal I have offered you so if you do not act now, I will rescind this amazingness and hike the prices!"
 
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HumbleHomeCook said:
Want to have your mind blown? Look up TPK Knives on YouTube. I don't know if she (and I think her boyfriend/hubby) still does but when I was first learned of it on another forum, she/they had an eBay store with a backlog!

And speaking of slimy sales tactics, I'm a big fan of the "Ooooo you heathens! You can't appreciate the deal I have offered you so if you do not act now, I will rescind this amazingness and hike the prices!"
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Discount for cooks?
 
ian said:
I’d be interested to see if there were some other examples of knives (say, made my men) at that price point where the knives looked similarly unappealing.
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M1k3 said:
Just like I made fun Carter's Honest Edge Ranch. If he was a female, I'd still make fun of it.
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I was just going to say, the best male analogue to CM is probably MC (opposite and inverse, ying and yang :mindblown: )... They're obviously not the same, but they both lean heavily on their image to sell knives for higher than market rates. Would anyone pay MC prices for a 7" santoku funayuki if it was made by a random Japanese guy?

2F661934-E8B9-4178-B255-572E78115DED.jpeg

DC69354E-134D-48A3-A4C5-706F05538FC6.jpeg
Real focus on the knives here 🙄
 
spaceconvoy said:
I was just going to say, the best male analogue to CM is probably MC (opposite and inverse, ying and yang :mindblown: )... They're obviously not the same, but they both lean heavily on their image to sell knives for higher than market rates. Would anyone pay MC prices for a 7" santoku funayuki if it was made by a random Japanese guy?

View attachment 148694
View attachment 148697Real focus on the knives here 🙄
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I had to do a double take on the pic of CM, looks like she’s holding a really small coconut with a straw going straight into her nose

MC has his moments - such as “I’ve made 372,000 knives in my career and sharpened over 500k” but at least he’s a ABS master bladesmith. I think for some that title carries a lot of weight and are willing to pay a premium for a funyantoku or whatever it’s called
 
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tcmx3 said:
it's rare I agree with SpaceConvoy, but in this case he is 100% right.

the reaction CM gets is disproportionate in the extreme and a lot of it is outright gross/sexual in nature. whatever story you want to tell yourself that somehow excuses that behavior I cant stop you from doing, but it will never actually excuse the behavior SC is (rightly) calling out.
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Did I miss something? All I've occasionally seen is the occasional joking CMCMCM or other reference to her, usually in relation to overpriced, ugly or junk knives. I don't think that's entirely unfair when you ask 800 bucks for junk, and the amount of uncritical attention she had in some more mainstream media is frankly sad, and to think that she would have gotten that same attention if she had been a man is... cute. At best that's 'positive sexism'...

Bico Doce said:
I was just poking fun. I am sure for some they live their life where sex drive does dictate every action, I personally believe that we can evolve beyond that. This is a philosophical question that has been debated for millennia and I cannot disprove your point. With that said I’m not sure I would want my daughter on this forum/thread after a comment like that
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There is some truth in what he said though; especially in the world of marketing. The age-old mantra of 'sex sells' is very much alive, but it's usualy / mostly on a subconscious level, and you see this in things like popular media, entertainment and other sectors as well.
I'm not saying this is a good thing, but... let's just say that after doing a course on social psychology you start recognizing a lot of stuff.
 
Jovidah said:
Did I miss something? All I've occasionally seen is the occasional joking CMCMCM or other reference to her, usually in relation to overpriced, ugly or junk knives. I don't think that's entirely unfair when you ask 800 bucks for junk, and the amount of uncritical attention she had in some more mainstream media is frankly sad, and to think that she would have gotten that same attention if she had been a man is... cute. At best that's 'positive sexism'...
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Yea, there’s definitely a fair amount of benign joking around about her knives. But in addition to the occasional explicit sexual reference, there’s a lot of low grade stuff, like people saying she’s gonna be their next wife, or drawing a comparison between her and a porn star*. A lot of these comments aren’t really a big deal as a one off, but when it becomes a theme then it’s clear that the forum treats her more as a sex symbol than a knife-maker, which is not great imo regardless of the quality of her product. Maybe you could argue that it’s the world (or rather the greater knife community) that treats her that way when they elevate her products, so we at KKF are just commenting on that, but it’s still not great.


*Your post about this is an outlier, since you were also making a point about sexism, in the context of a discussion about someone being viewed sexually. And in general, I think you’re one of the more measured and thoughtful posters on here, whose opinion I respect. It’s just that if you were to count the number of posts containing both CM and some sort of low grade innuendo or sexual reference, I’m confident that they’d vastly outnumber the number of posts containing MC and such a reference, which says something. Perhaps that something is subtle, but I think it’s there.

Edit: I also should just say that it’s not that anyone who’s ever made an innuendo about her is a bad person or something. It’s just that the forum atmosphere kind of encourages that. I’m certainly guilty of making off color jokes from time to time too.
 
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Jovidah said:
Did I miss something? All I've occasionally seen is the occasional joking CMCMCM or other reference to her, usually in relation to overpriced, ugly or junk knives. I don't think that's entirely unfair when you ask 800 bucks for junk, and the amount of uncritical attention she had in some more mainstream media is frankly sad, and to think that she would have gotten that same attention if she had been a man is... cute. At best that's 'positive sexism'...
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there's always a reason.

"it's not about gender/race/orientation", except that it is 🤷‍♂️

and sure the media might be uncritical of whether her knives are good, but people here seem to be real uncritical of whether they are contributing to a problem. I dont know why I/Ian/SC/etc have to keep telling you that you are too married to the idea that one of these wrongs is somehow justifying the other. that's just not how it works.
 
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