Glueing together stones with adhesive?

[Chasingsharpness]

I was wondering if anyone had any expirence glueing together whole stones or broken fragments?

What adhesive did you use, and how well did it hold?

Basically I am considering gluing together two stones to increase the width, then flattening it to achieve a continuous surface. Would this work and I'm I likely to run into any issues?

 

[BillHanna]

@cotedupy ? Seems like something @stringer might do, as well. And @M1k3

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

If you're going to glue side-by-side, I would think you'd want to also glue to a some kind of base. A s-b-s joint won't be very strong. It may not survive any flattening efforts.

I also think flattening them will be challenging. Doable, but challenging. I guess it depends a lot on the chosen stones.

The other thing I think might be a problem is your seam is going to be right in the center of the sharpening surface. That's where you're going to want to spend most of your time sharpening. Otherwise you could just stick to the two independent stones.

 

[BillHanna]

Oh! I didn’t read correctly. I thought you wanted to make a combo stone vertically.

 

[ethompson]

I also think flattening them will be challenging. Doable, but challenging. I guess it depends a lot on the chosen stones.

This is something that's being overlooked in a lot of these threads. Keeping stones this size flat isn't straightforward. It requires attention (vs being a mildly atoma rub) with stones over 215x80 but turns into a chore with stones >250x85. Doable, but I really think after 210x75 you really hit rapidly diminishing returns that start inverting at >250 length and >90 width.

 

[Chasingsharpness]

If you're going to glue side-by-side, I would think you'd want to also glue to a some kind of base. A s-b-s joint won't be very strong. It may not survive any flattening efforts.

I also think flattening them will be challenging. Doable, but challenging. I guess it depends a lot on the chosen stones.

The other thing I think might be a problem is your seam is going to be right in the center of the sharpening surface. That's where you're going to want to spend most of your time sharpening. Otherwise you could just stick to the two independent stones.

Thanks for the insight.

I did just have a quick sesh with two stones clamped together. The seem between the two was indeed the weakest point. I think if I can figure that out I could just do as you say and glue them to a base. I guess I could even glue part of the sides to the base to help reinforce it.

That seam though is quite tricky...

 

[M1k3]

@cotedupy ? Seems like something @stringer might do, as well. And @M1k3

I don't have experience with that. I do a have a stone @stringer glued together though.

 

[Desert Rat]

Thanks for the insight.

I did just have a quick sesh with two stones clamped together. The seem between the two was indeed the weakest point. I think if I can figure that out I could just do as you say and glue them to a base. I guess I could even glue part of the sides to the base to help reinforce it.

That seam though is quite tricky...

What kind of stones are you glueing together?

 

[stringer]

I've definitely glued broken stones together to mend them. And I've glued stones together to create combo stones. Any two part epoxy would work fine. But I've never tried to glue stones side by side. I do think you would have issues with the seam and long term durabilty. For the kind of surface area you seem to be chasing I would recommend buying some large format sandpaper and sticking that to something large and flat. Then you can replace the sandpaper when it is worn and not worry about keeping a very large surface area flat. Your life will be much easier if you can figure out how to sharpen on smaller format stones though.

 

[Chasingsharpness]

What kind of stones are you glueing together?

I'm not entirely sure on the type of stone yet. Just exploring if it's even possible at the moment.

I would likely go with any long stone I can find. So far I'm thinking perhaps a Norton IC11 India stone (11.5")

 

[Chasingsharpness]

I've definitely glued broken stones together to mend them. And I've glued stones together to create combo stones. Any two part epoxy would work fine. But I've never tried to glue stones side by side. I do think you would have issues with the seam and long term durabilty. For the kind of surface area you seem to be chasing I would recommend buying some large format sandpaper and sticking that to something large and flat. Then you can replace the sandpaper when it is worn and not worry about keeping a very large surface area flat. Your life will be much easier if you can figure out how to sharpen on smaller format stones though.

Thanks for the info. I had thought of the sandpaper before. The only thing putting me off is how often I would have to replace it, and the fact that Im not sure edge leading strokes will work as well. Ill give it another go however.

I can sharpen on smaller stones, I just find them less enjoyable for large blades and cleavers. I did a pocketknife earlier today and for that I preferred a 2" wide stone. For a 240mm+ cleaver though I don't enjoy using a narrow stone.

I guess it's also a personal project as there is nothing on the market that matches what I'm looking for.

 

[Jovidah]

This is something that's being overlooked in a lot of these threads. Keeping stones this size flat isn't straightforward. It requires attention (vs being a mildly atoma rub) with stones over 215x80 but turns into a chore with stones >250x85. Doable, but I really think after 210x75 you really hit rapidly diminishing returns that start inverting at >250 length and >90 width.

Isn't the solution to also glue two flattening stones side by side?

 

[Rangen]

Thanks for the info. I had thought of the sandpaper before. The only thing putting me off is how often I would have to replace it, and the fact that Im not sure edge leading strokes will work as well. Ill give it another go however.

I can sharpen on smaller stones, I just find them less enjoyable for large blades and cleavers. I did a pocketknife earlier today and for that I preferred a 2" wide stone. For a 240mm+ cleaver though I don't enjoy using a narrow stone.

I guess it's also a personal project as there is nothing on the market that matches what I'm looking for.

I am enjoying your pursuit of this idiosyncratic project and will be very interested in your results. It's much less odd than that guy who treated a legendary knife as a blank and made his own knife from it...and that project was successful.

Some random thoughts:

The traditional answer to sharpening things that you find too large to sharpen comfortably is to bring a small stone to the edge, rather than the edge to a large stone.

I often sharpen large knives (up to 300mm) and cleavers (up to 250mm). Generally what brings challenges is not length, but weight (especially over 600 grams). I address that with hand placement.

The largest flattening stone I have is a DIa-Flat diamond plate, at 100mm x 250mm. It's heavy, too, which helps. They make two grits (90 and 120, IIRC), and both flat and grooved versions. Of course if you are using SiC powder on a flat surface, you can make that surface as big as you want, but that would require that the whole stone be flat, in order to reach everywhere, which may be more flatness than you need for your application.

More length can be a substitute for more width, if what you're after is maximizing how much edge you can cover with a long, sweeping stroke.

 

[Pie]

The idea sounds like a real pita, but I can see where you’re coming from.

I mean, as long as you can find a flat enough base just stick them on right? Flatten with a massive glass plate x sic.. make sure your glue won’t mess with the sharpening, and don’t use something super soft.

How about glueing 2 30 size jnat bricks together?

 

[Desert Rat]

I'm not entirely sure on the type of stone yet. Just exploring if it's even possible at the moment.

I would likely go with any long stone I can find. So far I'm thinking perhaps a Norton IC11 India stone (11.5")

One inch thick would probably give you enough surface area to hold. If the two stones didn't match perfectly in height, or the edges needed jointed I wouldn't want to be you. Perhaps you could tell the vender to check them for you.

 

[stringer]

I'm not entirely sure on the type of stone yet. Just exploring if it's even possible at the moment.

I would likely go with any long stone I can find. So far I'm thinking perhaps a Norton IC11 India stone (11.5")

I do have a Norton 11" Tri-Hone. It is a beast. But I only use it for the coarsest work because it is so hard to keep flat. Once you get passed the coarse part and are just chasing burr, what @Rangen said above is great advice. Bring the stone to the tool edge instead of vice versa.



https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/sharpening-in-hand.57897/

 

[Desert Rat]

I do have a Norton 11" Tri-Hone. It is a beast. But I only use it for the coarsest work because it is so hard to keep flat. Once you get passed the coarse part and are just chasing burr, what @Rangen said above is great advice. Bring the stone to the tool edge instead of vice versa.



https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/sharpening-in-hand.57897/

I just dress the stones after each use with a 2"x 6" worn diamond plate. It's long enough to reach across the width of the stone and I give the ends a little extra flying by the seat of my pants. I just checked my coarse and only have about a 1/16" of dish end to end.

 

[M1k3]

For side by side, you're probably going to be better off epoxying them onto something, along with each other.

 

[Chasingsharpness]

Very interesting ideas guys thanks for all your insights.

Bringing the stone to the edge is definitely legit, but a whole different beast. On this occasion I'm not looking to work around the problem but rather follow through.

Indeed Norton India is not a pleasant stone to flatten. My solution to flattening the eventual frankenstone is sic powder and an even bigger sheet of glass or granite.

It's a shame I cannot make the stone to spec from a mould. Perhaps there's a company that can, but I assume it's not a home operation.

Ill keep bouncing some ideas around my head see if I can crack the case.

 

[TB_London]

With the epoxy recommendations does the glue seam wear with the stone and not be noticeable or does it cause feedback/wear issues?

Have a broken German natural stone that I want to mend but thought glue may cause issues- was thinking a thick CA may be best as CA tends not to be rubbery when cured

 

[stringer]

With the epoxy recommendations does the glue seam wear with the stone and not be noticeable or does it cause feedback/wear issues?

Have a broken German natural stone that I want to mend but thought glue may cause issues- was thinking a thick CA may be best as CA tends not to be rubbery when cured

It works pretty good for coarser stones that release a little material as you go. The harder and finer the stone the more you notice the seam. CA doesn't hold very well with water/oil, porous stone material, lateral stresses from bearing down on it while sharpening etc.

 

[MowgFace]

Ok, you guys convinced me. I wasn’t a fan of differential sharpening, but today marks a new era.

 

[Chasingsharpness]

Ok, you guys convinced me. I wasn’t a fan of differential sharpening, but today marks a new era.

View attachment 260888

Excellent. Sharpening on two stones at the same time your knife is going to be twice as sharp!

How's that seam holding up?

 

[M1k3]

Ok, you guys convinced me. I wasn’t a fan of differential sharpening, but today marks a new era.

View attachment 260888

Gives a new meaning to "hybrid edge".

 

[DHunter86]

Well you could glue both the stones to a base, reinforce the whole thing together with some string tied really tight around and glued to the sides. And if the seam does become an issue due to the uneven hardening from manufacture (synths only), use a small diamond file to dig it out as you go, much like you'd do to a toxic line on a natural stone.

 

[Benuser]

More length can be a substitute for more width, if what you're after is maximizing how much edge you can cover with a long, sweeping stroke.

I'm a bit sceptical regarding the possibility to hold an exact angle with long sweeping strokes. Checking with sharpie and loupe is likely to give disconcerting results.

 

[Chasingsharpness]

I do find that for long sweeping strokes on a Norton IC11 (11.5x2.5in), the blade is almost vertical perpendicular to my shoulders. It feels more difficult to hold a stable angle when holding the blade at that orientation.

I'm looking for a long and wide stone so I can hit the entire length of the cleaver at once, but hold it more parallel to my shoulders (or at a diagonal angle) to increase stability. In this case even if the stroke length stays the same, more of the edge is being abraded at the same time, rather than half of the edge hanging off into the air. I find this abrades the edge at a more consistent angle and also increases stability.

 

[TB_London]

Hmmm I can see the theory, I’d test it with a sheet of sandpaper first as I’d find that amount of width more a hindrance for most things, especially with the swept edge of a cleaver

 

[Chasingsharpness]

What do you mean by swept edge?

 

[Rangen]

I'm a bit sceptical regarding the possibility to hold an exact angle with long sweeping strokes. Checking with sharpie and loupe is likely to give disconcerting results.

That sounds like an interesting discussion all on its own.

The idea that it's a not a real skill seems unusual. @stringer and others do it routinely in videos. Pretty much all use of a steel is exactly this.

I am not that good at it, but I think I can do it for about 150mm of edge. The placement of my thumb (edge facing me) or forefinger (edge facing away from me) is crucial. If the supporting digit is placed in the middle, instead of right behind the edge, I can't make it work consistently. My belief that I can make it work is based on microscope views.

Oddly, I find that speed is an asset when sweeping. It seems easier to get very clear feedback that you're at the edge when the edge is moving along the stone briskly.

It's a skill I'm developing, not one I would claim to have fully acquired.