Help from the carnivores, please

[Seemore]

I'd like to get a small slicer, but I don't want a single bevel knife. I've found some others to consider, but I'm hoping you'll weigh in, thumbs up or thumbs down, on using this Ashi Ginga W2 as a slicer, and on the knife itself. This is for portioning (i.e. to freeze), prepping, and slicing-to-serve boneless proteins. Sushi will not be part of the job. Thanks.

GINGA WHITE STEEL WA-PETTY KNIFE 210MM

• Brand---Ginga by Ashi Hamono
• Blade--- Double-Beveled White #2 Carbon Steel
• Handle---Octagon Hou Wood(Magnolia) with buffalo horn collar
• Blade Length---200mm(7.9") from tip to heel
• Blade Length---212mm(8.3") from tip to handle
• Total Length---340mm(13.4")
• Spine Thickness---2.0mm at heel
• Blade Height---30.7mm(1.2") at heel
• Weight---approx 69gr(2.4oz)
• Hardness---HRC 61

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I tend to be a short-knife guy but I do like a 240 suji for this task. I just find it gives more versatility but I also break down a range from chicken breasts to roasts in the 3-5lb range.

 

[Heckel7302]

Hard to go wrong with a Ginga if you like thin, light knives. You might consider something a bit longer for a slicer though, 240mm+.

I tend to like a slicer that is a bit beefier with no flex, but that's just me.

 

[AT5760]

I'm in the same boat as @HumbleHomeCook. I mainly use <200 mm knives. But if I'm slicing protein, I go straight for my 270 suji.

 

[stringer]

I'd like to get a small slicer, but I don't want a single bevel knife. I've found some others to consider, but I'm hoping you'll weigh in, thumbs up or thumbs down, on using this Ashi Ginga W2 as a slicer, and on the knife itself. This is for portioning (i.e. to freeze), prepping, and slicing-to-serve boneless proteins. Sushi will not be part of the job. Thanks.

View attachment 255678

GINGA WHITE STEEL WA-PETTY KNIFE 210MM

• Brand---Ginga by Ashi Hamono
• Blade--- Double-Beveled White #2 Carbon Steel
• Handle---Octagon Hou Wood(Magnolia) with buffalo horn collar
• Blade Length---200mm(7.9") from tip to heel
• Blade Length---212mm(8.3") from tip to handle
• Total Length---340mm(13.4")
• Spine Thickness---2.0mm at heel
• Blade Height---30.7mm(1.2") at heel
• Weight---approx 69gr(2.4oz)
• Hardness---HRC 61

I have one of these. It used to be my silverskin killer when I was cleaning lots of beef. It works great for slicing single portions of meat. Like a hanger steak or a chicken breast. If you are slicing anything larger you would definitely be better off with more length. I would even recommend going to 270 if you plan on slicing any kind of big roasts (turkey, brisket, prime rib, etc).

 

[Seemore]

I tend to be a short-knife guy but I do like a 240 suji for this task. I just find it gives more versatility but I also break down a range from chicken breasts to roasts in the 3-5lb range.

Sujis are all single bevel as far as I know, and I’m not going there. I have a couple double bevel yanagibas bookmarked as possibilities. Thanks.

Hard to go wrong with a Ginga if you like thin, light knives. You might consider something a bit longer for a slicer though, 240mm+.

I tend to like a slicer that is a bit beefier with no flex, but that's just me.

The shorter length is okay for my application: feeding two vegetable lovers a bit of flesh every third night or so (I should have mentioned that). But good call on the flex question. I’ll consider that, thank you.

 

[Greasylake]

Sujis are all single bevel as far as I know, and I’m not going there. I have a couple double bevel yanagibas bookmarked as possibilities. Thanks.

Sujis are double bevel, yanabiba are single bevel. A double bevel yanagiba is just a suji, and vice versa.

I generally use two knives with meat, a 210 yanagiba for trimming and stuff, and a 290 yanagiba for slicing. I've used a 270 as well but I preferred the little extra length and heft from the 290. A 150 petty probably has a place as well if you're dealing with smaller cuts of meat like poultry, but personally I've gotten by fine without one.

 

[Seemore]

I have one of these. It used to be my silverskin killer when I was cleaning lots of beef. It works great for slicing single portions of meat. Like a hanger steak or a chicken breast. If you are slicing anything larger you would definitely be better off with more length. I would even recommend going to 270 if you plan on slicing any kind of big roasts (turkey, brisket, prime rib, etc).

Thanks for the useful first-hand feedback. My application is indeed for feeding small numbers of people small portions of flesh seldom. Except for fish, often.

 

[Seemore]

Sujis are double bevel, yanabiba are single bevel. A double bevel yanagiba is just a suji, and vice versa.

I generally use two knives with meat, a 210 yanagiba for trimming and stuff, and a 290 yanagiba for slicing. I've used a 270 as well but I preferred the little extra length and heft from the 290. A 150 petty probably has a place as well if you're dealing with smaller cuts of meat like poultry, but personally I've gotten by fine without one.

Thank you. I had that backwards.

 

[Qapla']

Are you righty?

 

[btbyrd]

What's the biggest thing you imagine yourself cutting? Are there specific things you want to cut but your current knives aren't quite up to the task?

If all you're portioning is poultry and the occasional pork loin or whatever, you can easily get away with the ginga 210. I have the stainless western handled version and it is great for trimming, portioning, and slicing smaller proteins for service. It definitely wouldn't be my first choice on a larger roast though, being both too short and too thin for my preferences. It's more of a utility or line knife for me than a real slicer... a "long petty" not a sujihiki.

For a true slicer, I like having a full 270+ to work with. And if I'm going to be cutting something burly like a big beef roast, I prefer a stiff blade with some weight to it.

 

[blokey]

Another 210mm candidate, solid Ginsan is pretty rare.
https://knifejapan.com/moriya-munemitsu-kuchigane-yanagiba-210mm-gingami-3-stainless-steel/

 

[SwampDonkey]

I don't have a dedicated suji (yet) but my Munetoshi 240 gyuto is far and away my best meat slicer. Something about the convex grind makes it really nice whereas some of my ultra thin veggie machines tend to get a little bogged down in a big hunk a meat. Munetoshi nakiri was even quite good with meats when I did it for giggles (as was Wat Pro).

I'd agree with those above that the longest you're comfortable with, the better, but here's a 210 suji if you're most comfortable with that size.

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-sujihiki-210mm/

Edit: I just realized you only wanted specifics on that knife, I'm sorry for not reading more thoroughly and just chucking a rec to muddy things. Gonna leave it up though since I feel there's some merit to the grind comment

 

[Seemore]

Are you righty?

Yup

 

[Seemore]

What's the biggest thing you imagine yourself cutting? Are there specific things you want to cut but your current knives aren't quite up to the task?

If all you're portioning is poultry and the occasional pork loin or whatever, you can easily get away with the ginga 210. I have the stainless western handled version and it is great for trimming, portioning, and slicing smaller proteins for service. It definitely wouldn't be my first choice on a larger roast though, being both too short and too thin for my preferences. It's more of a utility or line knife for me than a real slicer... a "long petty" not a sujihiki.

Indeed, the Ashi is a long petty. I thought it might double for some other tasks. If we do a roast here once in 10 years, I’ll figure out another way to cut it.
Small portions - yes. Thanks!

 

[Seemore]

Another 210mm candidate, solid Ginsan is pretty rare.
https://knifejapan.com/moriya-munemitsu-kuchigane-yanagiba-210mm-gingami-3-stainless-steel/

That one is on my shortlist, and perhaps a better pick than the Ashi, if it’s a little stiffer.

 

[Qapla']

What do you think of this?

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kapssu24.html (It's at Chef Knives To Go.)

 

[Seemore]

I don't have a dedicated suji (yet) but my Munetoshi 240 gyuto is far and away my best meat slicer. Something about the convex grind makes it really nice whereas some of my ultra thin veggie machines tend to get a little bogged down in a big hunk a meat. Munetoshi nakiri was even quite good with meats when I did it for giggles (as was Wat Pro).

I'd agree with those above that the longest you're comfortable with, the better, but here's a 210 suji if you're most comfortable with that size.

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-sujihiki-210mm/

Edit: I just realized you only wanted specifics on that knife, I'm sorry for not reading more thoroughly and just chucking a rec to muddy things. Gonna leave it up though since I feel there's some merit to the grind comment

No need to apologize - Munetoshi is an easy sell for me, considering I have four (!), and I hadn’t seen it. Awesome knives for my taste. If I use the same knife every day, I sharpen it every three months whether it needs it or not and it generally doesn’t.

 

[Choppin]

I love small suji / long petty knives and use them all the time at home.

the 210 size is great for the kind of protein I cook - mostly poultry and preportioned cuts of beef and pork (tenderloin, steak, etc). it feels very natural and nimble and can handle other tasks like trimming, silverskin, peeling veggies, etc. I also cook a lot of veggies and prefer larger knives for them (240+ gyuto, 180 nakiri, etc), but a 200-225 slicer is all I need for protein.

I had the stainless version of that same Ashi (BTW white steel sounds better for a protein slicer). I’m an Ashi fanboy and own other knives from them - you just can’t go wrong. no such thing as a bad Ashi! beautiful slightly convex grind, a joy to sharpen and gets stinky sharp, really good F&F, basically a lot of knife for the price tag.

my only observation is that it is somewat flexy - nothing extreme like a fish fileting knife, but enough to feel it when slicing. I ended up selling it as I prefer stiff slicers. this is a personal preference and something to consider. on the plus side, the flex works well for carving and trimming. it is also short at the heel so not super comfortable as a veggie prep knife, but I understand you are looking for a pure slicer so that shouldn’t be an issue.

if you prefer something stiff, Munetoshi, Zakuri (from JKI), Ikenami (KnifeJapan) and Heiji make 210 sujis with a thicker spine, all under $200 (assuming you order direct from Heiji). maybe get the Ashi and the Mune and sell the one you like the least?

PS: note that wa-handled Ashi knives are Sakai-sized, which means this one is more like 200mm long heel to tip.

PS2: what other knives are you considering?

 

[esoo]

I had a 270 kearu suji from JNS. Could never get over how light it was. I'd only ever sliced roasts or gravlox with it. I also always found it too short to do a single pull cut for a slice.

Now I just use a 240 gyuto for any meat slicing

 

[blokey]

That one is on my shortlist, and perhaps a better pick than the Ashi, if it’s a little stiffer.

I think @kpham12 has one.

 

[SwampDonkey]

No need to apologize - Munetoshi is an easy sell for me, considering I have four (!), and I hadn’t seen it. Awesome knives for my taste. If I use the same knife every day, I sharpen it every three months whether it needs it or not and it generally doesn’t.

A man of taste! The oversized 215 length of the Munetoshi should actually work fairly well.

My Patron Saint Shindo is also making sujis now, which I've been eyeing but the smallest is a 240 and I don't have experience with the SRK8, only his aogami #2. The longer suji could also double as a big squash and melon knife, if you're looking for extra justification

 

[Seemore]

I love small suji / long petty knives and use them all the time at home.

the 210 size is great for the kind of protein I cook - mostly poultry and preportioned cuts of beef and pork (tenderloin, steak, etc). it feels very natural and nimble and can handle other tasks like trimming, silverskin, peeling veggies, etc. I also cook a lot of veggies and prefer larger knives for them (240+ gyuto, 180 nakiri, etc), but a 200-225 slicer is all I need for protein.

I had the stainless version of that same Ashi (BTW white steel sounds better for a protein slicer). I’m an Ashi fanboy and own other knives from them - you just can’t go wrong. no such thing as a bad Ashi! beautiful slightly convex grind, a joy to sharpen and gets stinky sharp, really good F&F, basically a lot of knife for the price tag.

my only observation is that it is somewat flexy - nothing extreme like a fish fileting knife, but enough to feel it when slicing. I ended up selling it as I prefer stiff slicers. this is a personal preference and something to consider. on the plus side, the flex works well for carving and trimming. it is also short at the heel so not super comfortable as a veggie prep knife, but I understand you are looking for a pure slicer so that shouldn’t be an issue.

if you prefer something stiff, Munetoshi, Zakuri (from JKI), Ikenami (KnifeJapan) and Heiji make 210 sujis with a thicker spine, all under $200 (assuming you order direct from Heiji). maybe get the Ashi and the Mune and sell the one you like the least?

PS: note that wa-handled Ashi knives are Sakai-sized, which means this one is more like 200mm long heel to tip.

PS2: what other knives are you considering?

Thanks for taking the time to write that - it's very helpful indeed.

Besides the Ashi, considering:
~M. Hinoura 215 Petty W2 (the silence in KKF about this maker is somewhat deafening)
~Moriya Munemitsu 210 ginsan (a bit of a hard sell, for me)
~Ikenami 200 W1 (I'm not a fan of shirogami 1 but I should probably get over that)
~Munetoshi 210 W2 (Absolutely everything is right about this, except that I have a large family of his knives and would like to expand my experience).
~and the wild card: Takahashi Kajiya Yanagiba 180mm
(if a longer one could be available)

I'm a fairly slow buyer, depending on "percolation" to bring the solution.

 

[Seemore]

A man of taste! The oversized 215 length of the Munetoshi should actually work fairly well.

My Patron Saint Shindo is also making sujis now, which I've been eyeing but the smallest is a 240 and I don't have experience with the SRK8, only his aogami #2. The longer suji could also double as a big squash and melon knife, if you're looking for extra justification

View attachment 255850

I'm also a fan of Kyohei. I bought my daughter a bunka as her first Japanese knife, then followed with a funayuki for myself. By intuition I'm not inclined toward highly specialized unknown steels or processes, but I appreciate the suggestion.

 

[Choppin]

Thanks for taking the time to write that - it's very helpful indeed.

Besides the Ashi, considering:
~M. Hinoura 215 Petty W2 (the silence in KKF about this maker is somewhat deafening)
~Moriya Munemitsu 210 ginsan (a bit of a hard sell, for me)
~Ikenami 200 W1 (I'm not a fan of shirogami 1 but I should probably get over that)
~Munetoshi 210 W2 (Absolutely everything is right about this, except that I have a large family of his knives and would like to expand my experience).
~and the wild card: Takahashi Kajiya Yanagiba 180mm
(if a longer one could be available)

I'm a fairly slow buyer, depending on "percolation" to bring the solution.

no problem at all, I could talk all day about this lol

besides the Ashi I only have experience with the Ikenami. it is 100% stiff (spine starts ˜3mm thick) but still feels nimble. can't comment on the steel as I haven't sharpened or used it extensively. great cutter, quite thin BTE and bevels are hollow ground as usual with Ikenami knives (CON: that means it's less straightforward to get them 100% flat and stone ready if you care about that; PRO: will retain its BTE thinness longer and postpone thinning). F&F is ok, nothing too bad, spine and choil aren't polished or rounded but they feel comfortable in use. the KU finish is mostly smooth (like Watanebe pro) with some rougher bits.

you can get Ikenami knives for real cheap on Rakuten but they only ship domestic, so you'd need a forwarding shipping company in JP to send it to the US.

 

[deltaplex]

no problem at all, I could talk all day about this lol

besides the Ashi I only have experience with the Ikenami. it is 100% stiff (spine starts ˜3mm thick) but still feels nimble. can't comment on the steel as I haven't sharpened or used it extensively. great cutter, quite thin BTE and bevels are hollow ground as usual with Ikenami knives (CON: that means it's less straightforward to get them 100% flat and stone ready if you care about that; PRO: will retain its BTE thinness longer and postpone thinning). F&F is ok, nothing too bad, spine and choil aren't polished or rounded but they feel comfortable in use. the KU finish is mostly smooth (like Watanebe pro) with some rougher bits.

you can get Ikenami knives for real cheap on Rakuten but they only ship domestic, so you'd need a forwarding shipping company in JP to send it to the US.

I like Ikenami's HT on their Shirogami, fwiw. They trade off a little bit of peak sharpness for toughness in comparison to how hard it's run by other Japanese Smiths, it's pretty bulletproof IME.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Thanks for taking the time to write that - it's very helpful indeed.

Besides the Ashi, considering:
~M. Hinoura 215 Petty W2 (the silence in KKF about this maker is somewhat deafening)
~Moriya Munemitsu 210 ginsan (a bit of a hard sell, for me)
~Ikenami 200 W1 (I'm not a fan of shirogami 1 but I should probably get over that)
~Munetoshi 210 W2 (Absolutely everything is right about this, except that I have a large family of his knives and would like to expand my experience).
~and the wild card: Takahashi Kajiya Yanagiba 180mm
(if a longer one could be available)

I'm a fairly slow buyer, depending on "percolation" to bring the solution.

You could also consider having @MSicardCutlery make you something with your preferences in mind. 52100 or AEB-L would do well here.

 

[Choppin]

these also look interesting, although I haven’t tried them. given the spine thickness I’d expect them to be 100% stiff. I wonder who the maker is.

https://japanesechefsknife.com/prod...wa-petty-210mm-8-2-inch?variant=8187993227361
https://japanesechefsknife.com/prod...e-petty-210mm-8-2-inch?variant=40136612249697

 

[daveb]

The 210 Ginga is a longer petty with a lot of flex. I've used a few laser petty in that size and they don't work for me. However, a 240 Tadasuna INOX (another laser) is one of the most used knives in my home kitchen. It will trim anything, portion birds and tenderloins (pig or cow) AND do a great job on fish. Suggest that this size merits some consideration.

Also the white steel Ginga will be reactive as a knife can be. Suggest you consider a stainless version unless you can go from use to wipe/dry every single time you pick it up.

The Mcard option sounds good.

Good luck.

 

[Seemore]

Thanks, everyone, for your informed comments. They definitely helped shape my decision. When I understood from some of you that Ashi is solid for its type, I started reading older threads, all the way back to 2014. I took a slight left turn along the way (big surprise), and ordered a 210 mm gyuto, which is en route. I definitely wanted a double-purpose knife, and I thought that this might fill my infrequent need for a slicer, while being my first gyuto. More later, after I’ve used it for awhile.