Kippington Deburring Video

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r0bz said:
@Kippington
i sharpened a few days back raised a big burr and went on with your method did the 90 degree stroke with feather light pressure and then the high angle pass, some of the burr got off the knife but a big part of it stayed i had to continue with edge leading strokes for some time to get rid of the burr completely

my question is do you use feather-light pressure "only the weight of the knife " when doing the 90 degree and high angle pass or you use more than that ?
i also found out that with a smaller burr the same pressure i used was enough to deburr the knife but with this bigger burr it wasn't enough
Click to expand...

You can use more pressure if you need to. It really depends on the steel and the stone you are using. Not all burrs are created equally.
 
Kippington said:
Alright, here it is!
I want to be clear - This is a video to explain a technique only. It was done on a 400 grit diamond plate - no higher grits - plus the knife used was a heat-treated bit of scrap steel.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Click to expand...

@Kippington what grit is the stone you were using ?
 
I’m reviving this post. I did this method today and it was astoundingly easy, fast and effective. I’ve watched quite a few videos from knife wear, burrfection(to my shame - but he was my gateway point - and I’ll be forever grateful but this is a side topic), some jki, but this is by far, in my humble early opinion, the best.

That being said, what are the pros and cons? (And don t give me the they are all good pick your flavor)

My assumption is this lacks any thinning and you have to rely on other methods to do thinning.

It is only used to get a nice crispy apex and at the same time put on a judicious micro bevel?
 
fortheloveofmoar said:
I’m reviving this post. I did this method today and it was astoundingly easy, fast and effective. I’ve watched quite a few videos from knife wear, burrfection(to my shame - but he was my gateway point - and I’ll be forever grateful but this is a side topic), some jki, but this is by far, in my humble early opinion, the best.

That being said, what are the pros and cons? (And don t give me the they are all good pick your flavor)

My assumption is this lacks any thinning and you have to rely on other methods to do thinning.

It is only used to get a nice crispy apex and at the same time put on a judicious micro bevel?
Click to expand...
The only draw back, or not really a drawback, but maybe a side effect is the better word. Is a tiny microbevel is going to be formed during the deburring process.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing. But for sure their is no way that wouldn't be happening on a small level.
 
fortheloveofmoar said:
I’m reviving this post. I did this method today and it was astoundingly easy, fast and effective. I’ve watched quite a few videos from knife wear, burrfection(to my shame - but he was my gateway point - and I’ll be forever grateful but this is a side topic), some jki, but this is by far, in my humble early opinion, the best.

That being said, what are the pros and cons? (And don t give me the they are all good pick your flavor)

My assumption is this lacks any thinning and you have to rely on other methods to do thinning.

It is only used to get a nice crispy apex and at the same time put on a judicious micro bevel?
Click to expand...

This is only a deburring method, for getting rid of the burr after/during sharpening. It’s not a sharpening method, nor a thinning method. Although if you are thinning and happen to create a burr (generally it’s better not to during thinning) you can remove it with this method.

I find this method most efficient for softer steels that produce big sticky burrs, since it can be hard to remove the burr without an aggressive approach like this. It also works fine on harder steels, but I don’t think it’s always necessary: I can often clean up the burr quickly without doing this.
 
ian said:
This is only a deburring method, for getting rid of the burr after/during sharpening. It’s not a sharpening method, nor a thinning method. Although if you are thinning and happen to create a burr (generally it’s better not to during thinning) you can remove it with this method.

I find this method most efficient for softer steels that produce big sticky burrs, since it can be hard to remove the burr without an aggressive approach like this. It also works fine on harder steels, but I don’t think it’s always necessary: I can often clean up the burr quickly without doing this.
Click to expand...
Ah, yes, that makes sense now as I think about it more. okay thank you.
 
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As a logical final conclusion: if you need the best sharpness, you should continue your progression up to 30K.
Then there will be no burr at all and a sharpest possible edge. Correct?
 
ValeryD said:
As a logical final conclusion: if you need the best sharpness, you should continue your progression up to 30K.
Then there will be no burr at all and a sharpest possible edge. Correct?
Click to expand...
No. As a general statement not true. No need of such a fine grit for the last deburring. I won't say a complete deburring on a 220 stone with a double-bevelled blade is that easy or always achievable, but if you deburr after every stone through the progression, a perfect deburring is already possible between 600 and 1200, depending a bit on the steel and the used technique.
 
ValeryD said:
As a logical final conclusion: if you need the best sharpness, you should continue your progression up to 30K.
Then there will be no burr at all and a sharpest possible edge. Correct?
Click to expand...
With fine grits especially doing alternating edge trailing passes. Its easy to form a wire edge. So it definitely needs to be taken into consideration. Since some think that just because its so fine and you cant feel it, some kind of burr inst formed.
 
Blank Blades. said:
With fine grits especially doing alternating edge trailing passes. Its easy to form a wire edge. So it definitely needs to be taken into consideration. Since some think that just because its so fine and you cant feel it, some kind of burr inst formed.
Click to expand...
Edge trailing strokes are indeed the surest way to raise a burr.
 
Kippington said:


@r0bz
This is a good starting point to learn how much pressure to use. As you improve your sharpening, you'll need less pressure than this - as if you had used thinner tape. (Use a coarse stone for thick tape)

@jwthaparc
This is one of the ways to use the technique, to protect a knife in the works.
Click to expand...

@Kippington does that mean if I just sharpened the left of the knife, I do this method on the left? Or does the side not really matter?
 
Kippington said:
For efficiency - If the burr is curving to the left, I'll try to push it further to the left.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I'm having a hard time getting a good edge this way but I never really have had a good edge. I usually, on my final stone, lightly increase angle to remove the burr and called it good until I had a hard time cutting a carrot the other day. I thin my knife regularly, so the only other thing I could think of is I'm not removing the burr. I found your video and I'm blown away. All I want is a really sharp edge
 
hibbs00 said:
Thank you. I'm having a hard time getting a good edge this way but I never really have had a good edge. I usually, on my final stone, lightly increase angle to remove the burr and called it good until I had a hard time cutting a carrot the other day. I thin my knife regularly, so the only other thing I could think of is I'm not removing the burr. I found your video and I'm blown away. All I want is a really sharp edge
Click to expand...
If you post a cutting video to the forums, perhaps some people here may be able to help you!
 
Kippington said:
If you post a cutting video to the forums, perhaps some people here may be able to help you!
Click to expand...
I'll have to do that. Thank you. I can get it to cut paper towel and shave but it can't handle a carrot lol. Is your method the same as jointing? Or the same as high angle passes?
 
hibbs00 said:
I'll have to do that. Thank you. I can get it to cut paper towel and shave but it can't handle a carrot lol. Is your method the same as jointing? Or the same as high angle passes?
Click to expand...
Curious now what knife you’re using. This sounds like a knife geometry problem, not a sharpness problem.

Try cutting strips or pieces of bell peppers or cherry tomatoes, skin side up.

Does the knife edge quickly grab / cut the skin ? If so, your edge is plenty sharp
 
Here's a post from Jeff Clark in 2005.

Jeff Clark said:
Don't expect to remove the burr by honing at the same angle with lighter pressure and don't expect to remove the burr by honing at a slightly higher honing angle. Don't expect to remove the burr with an extremely fine hone. What you need to do is hone at a really extremely high angle--yes you need to make your blade duller. In general you need to use something like a 45-degree angle (so that you are creating an astoundingly dull 90-degree edge angle)! You are undoing much of your sharpening effort so you want to only do a tiny amount of deburring. So you really want to use light pressure at this angle and you want to use a fine hone, but you need that hone to cut the burr off so the hone needs to be abrassive--not too smooth.

When I first finish reprofiling I have a large burr to get rid of. I like to use a very fine diamond hone for this purpose. It is pretty easy to eyeball a 45-degree angle. Use gentle edge-forwards alternate side honing strokes the minimum number to get rid of the burr. Go back to your normal fine honing techniques. When you are almost done do another pass at deburring using either diamond or a freshly cleaned fine hone. You want to finish the overall process by light honing, not by deburring. Get rid of your burrs just before your last light honing steps. The idea is to remove the traces of that 90-degree deburring step, but not remove too much material and create a new burr.

Since you seem to be familiar with freehand honing I'm giving you these tips in a generalized manner. I think that you can see where I'm going and can develope your own version of this idea.
Click to expand...


Cliff Stamp was also an advocate.

What happens if you strop this to remove the burr? You bend it to one side, then bend it back to the other and keep doing this until it breaks off. Just do that to a spoon (or any piece of metal) and look at the region where it broke, you will see the metal is damaged beyond where it broke off due to fatigue.

What happens when you remove the burr by drawing the knife through something? This takes the damaged metal and smashes it back into the apex as it rips and fractures it. This causes again more fatigue and damage.

All you have to do is cut it off on the stone. The sharpening stone is the abrasive, why not simply cut off the burr on that? The technique is very simple :

-make sure the stone is lubricated
-double the angle
-make 1-2 very light passes (as in 5-10 grams of force total)

This cuts off the weakened metal and doesn't generate any further damage to the edge. As noted in the above there is no reason to form a burr in the first place but when it does happen you can just cut it off.
Click to expand...
 
NickMinton said:
Curious now what knife you’re using. This sounds like a knife geometry problem, not a sharpness problem.

Try cutting strips or pieces of bell peppers or cherry tomatoes, skin side up.

Does the knife edge quickly grab / cut the skin ? If so, your edge is plenty sharp
Click to expand...
Some MasterChef knockoff. It does easily cut tomato and peppers. My pocket knife will cut paper towels but not shave. Is that a sharpness problem?
 

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hibbs00 said:
Some MasterChef knockoff. It does easily cut tomato and peppers. My pocket knife will cut paper towels but not shave. Is that a sharpness problem?
Click to expand...
Ah, ok, you may be encountering a knife geometry problem, not a sharpness / deburring problem (why you can’t cut carrots.

Essentially, your knife (most likely) doesn’t have a great geometry / shape that allows the blade to move through foods easily (especially dense foods like carrots and sweet potatoes)

You can have the sharpest knife in the world but if the geometry of it is bad, it won’t cut a lot of things easily.

Part of what you get when you purchase a really nice knife is great / amazing geometry

I don’t mean any insult by this next statement but most cheap knives have terrible geometry
 
NickMinton said:
Ah, ok, you may be encountering a knife geometry problem, not a sharpness / deburring problem (why you can’t cut carrots.

Essentially, your knife (most likely) doesn’t have a great geometry / shape that allows the blade to move through foods easily (especially dense foods like carrots and sweet potatoes)

You can have the sharpest knife in the world but if the geometry of it is bad, it won’t cut a lot of things easily.

Part of what you get when you purchase a really nice knife is great / amazing geometry

I don’t mean any insult by this next statement but most cheap knives have terrible geometry
Click to expand...
No insult taken. I appreciate the advice. I have a king 1000/6000 and shapton pro 1000. Also a diamond 140 plate I use for flattening. Can I fix the geometry with those or is it more of a professional job beyond what I have? I assume you're talking about thinning more?
 
Mr.Wizard said:
Here's a post from Jeff Clark in 2005.




Cliff Stamp was also an advocate.
Click to expand...
That reminds me of a YouTube video I saw called comparing deburring methods. I'm not sure if I can post it here but he tries the wood and cork methods with no real results. Then he does 2 passes at 45° each side. Then edge leading alternating strokes at regular angle to back sharpen and remove the microbevel. Interesting video
 
Blank Blades. said:
https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/10/20/sharpening-with-the-king-1k6k-combination-stone/
https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/10/30/burr-removal-part-1/
https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/02/22/the-pasted-strop-part-2/
Click to expand...
Thank you for those. I don't fully understand everything said in all of those though. Which burr removal method was found to be best? Also how can an edge push cut but not shave or can shave and not push cut? Aren't those the top 2 tests for having a good edge?
 
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