shtoonkeyg
Member
Hi Folks. I'm looking at making a substantial investment into a Japanese Gyuto that I can use for just about everything at a new job I'm about to start. I currently work at a high volume modern steakhouse, but will be moving to a Michelin & James Beard level kitchen in about a month or so. While there will still be lots of knife work to do (no real prep crew, cooks show up at noon and prep just about everything and then work through dinner service), I'm assuming that there will be a higher emphasis on precision than I'm used to, and also probably a slightly lower emphasis on speed and prepped volume than I'm used to. I'd say I have about average knife skills, but I've only been cooking professionally for about two years so I'd like to think that I'm still in a constant state of improvement. I'd like to invest in a high-end, well regarded gyuto as I start this position, and if I have to grow into it a bit skill-wise, that's ok. I am confident in my ability to grow while using the knife. Any and all help would be appreciated.
Ideally, I would like to be able to purchase this knife sometime in the next month or two. So, if it's not available right now, that's ok, but I can't afford to sit around for more than 5-6 weeks searching for it.
As per the standards, my knife questionnaire is below. DISCLAIMER: I am fairly new to this forum, and I have tried my best to talk about the things that I've learned from reading other's posts. If I am misinformed about a concept, please feel free to correct me. I feel specifically ill-informed in the grind department as I've mentioned in a previous post. I have no idea how to tell how Myojin/Kyuzo/Mazaki/etc are going to feel/perform compared to one another. I am in admiration of everyone here who has internalized so much knowledge specific to how different smiths and sharpeners around the world are producing knives that differ from one another.
With that aside...
LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA
KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto
Are you right or left handed?
Right Handed
Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese handle, though I would use a yo-handle if it was considered to be an essential part of the experience (as some people say for their TF's)
What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240mm (Would also consider 270mm, but leaning 240)
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No, but this knife will be my daily driver during both prep and service, so it would help if it was not the most reactive knife EVER. While my intention is to be vigilant about wiping down and overall care of the knife (as I am with my current knives), things happen during busy services and I cannot guarantee that there will be no moments in which the knife has something acidic on it longer than it otherwise should. All that being said, would like to avoid stainless clad.
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$600, but would ideally stay closer to $500
KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional Environment - morning prep shifts and dinner service, 50 hrs/week.
What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
All around use from vegetables to herbs to proteins. Chopping and slicing of vegetables, chiffonade herbs, mincing various items, trimming and portioning meat and fish. Will NOT be used for bone, joints, frozen items, hard cheeses, highly abrasive items, etc.
What knife, if any, are you replacing?
I currently alternate between using my Yoshihiro AS 240mm Gyuto (Stainless Clad) and a New West Knife Works 9" Chefs Knife.
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch
What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
I am primarily a rocker with some push cutting and draw cuts mixed in. I am trying, however, to incorporate more of the latter two. I would like the knife I buy to have at least SOME degree of ability to rock, even if it is primarily suited to push cuts. This is what scares me about Yoshikane knives, for example - I've read that the large flat section makes rock chopping pretty difficult. I am open and flexible to ideas/criticism regarding this mindset - would hate to miss out on a great knife just because I couldn't adapt to a different cutting style.
What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
I enjoy both of them in their own way, but both are lacking in many departments. The F&F of the Yoshihiro is decent, but it's too light and not quite tall enough for me. The NWKW 9" has a bit more heft and I like the profile, but working with the S35VN has been meh for me. The grinds on both knives leave a lot to be desired - both are rather thick BTE and yet somehow feel daintier than I'd like.
Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Honestly my intention is to favor performance over aesthetics in almost all regards. I'd rather a knife have better food release (less stiction?) than have a super cool finish.
Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
All of my desires regarding F&F aspects, including handle, rounding of the spine, etc. are geared towards comfort during all-day use. I don't really care about the aesthetic, but I would like it to be comfortable to grip and use for long periods of time.
Geometry/Specifications:
Though I've yet to own a knife like this, I think I'm looking for something that is decently thin BTE but has enough heft to it that it is just starting to get that feeling of "falling" through food. Not a true workhorse grind, but one that, despite it's cutting performance, FEELS like it doesn't have to be babied.
Theoretically between 3.5-5mm spine thickness at the heel, and no less than 50mm height at the heel.
I honestly do not know much about types of grinds - from what I've read it seems like a Convex, Wide-Bevel, or even S-Grind could all be desirable for different reasons. I would love to hear opinions on what these different grinds bring to the table and see different recommendations with different grinds, if anyone feels that it's warranted.
Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
I do not currently possess the skills to thin a knife, reprofile, re-finish, round a choil or spine, etc. I DO possess the skills to get the knife sharp on the stones, though. So while I don't need it to be super sharp OOTB, I do not want to have to thin it or reprofile it, I'd rather it come the way that I want it. That's not to say I don't want to learn how to do those things, just don't feel ready to experiment quite yet.
In regards to performance, again, I'd like it to have outstanding cutting performance - ideally a good balance between razor sharpness but also solid food release. I know a lot of that has to do with the grind, thinness behind the edge vs convexity for food release (PLEASE STOP ME IF I'M SPOUTING BS, I'M NEW TO THIS). Ideally I'd like to have a balance between both.
Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Right now, my routine is to sharpen once per week. I do not need the knife to stay SCREAMING sharp for the entire work week. I would however, like a knife that can stay serviceably (above-average) sharp for the duration of the week, with stropping maintenance as necessary.
KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Wood at home, probably synthetic at work.
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes
If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
I am interested in improving regardless, I think I can get a very very sharp edge, but I feel like the durability of my edges are not great. Does not feel like my knives stay screaming sharp for more than a few knife projects.
Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes. I currently own and use in tandem: SG500, King 1000/6000, Naniwa Chosera 3000, Naniwa Snow White 8000
Ideally, I would like to be able to purchase this knife sometime in the next month or two. So, if it's not available right now, that's ok, but I can't afford to sit around for more than 5-6 weeks searching for it.
As per the standards, my knife questionnaire is below. DISCLAIMER: I am fairly new to this forum, and I have tried my best to talk about the things that I've learned from reading other's posts. If I am misinformed about a concept, please feel free to correct me. I feel specifically ill-informed in the grind department as I've mentioned in a previous post. I have no idea how to tell how Myojin/Kyuzo/Mazaki/etc are going to feel/perform compared to one another. I am in admiration of everyone here who has internalized so much knowledge specific to how different smiths and sharpeners around the world are producing knives that differ from one another.
With that aside...
LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA
KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto
Are you right or left handed?
Right Handed
Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese handle, though I would use a yo-handle if it was considered to be an essential part of the experience (as some people say for their TF's)
What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240mm (Would also consider 270mm, but leaning 240)
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No, but this knife will be my daily driver during both prep and service, so it would help if it was not the most reactive knife EVER. While my intention is to be vigilant about wiping down and overall care of the knife (as I am with my current knives), things happen during busy services and I cannot guarantee that there will be no moments in which the knife has something acidic on it longer than it otherwise should. All that being said, would like to avoid stainless clad.
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$600, but would ideally stay closer to $500
KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional Environment - morning prep shifts and dinner service, 50 hrs/week.
What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
All around use from vegetables to herbs to proteins. Chopping and slicing of vegetables, chiffonade herbs, mincing various items, trimming and portioning meat and fish. Will NOT be used for bone, joints, frozen items, hard cheeses, highly abrasive items, etc.
What knife, if any, are you replacing?
I currently alternate between using my Yoshihiro AS 240mm Gyuto (Stainless Clad) and a New West Knife Works 9" Chefs Knife.
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch
What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
I am primarily a rocker with some push cutting and draw cuts mixed in. I am trying, however, to incorporate more of the latter two. I would like the knife I buy to have at least SOME degree of ability to rock, even if it is primarily suited to push cuts. This is what scares me about Yoshikane knives, for example - I've read that the large flat section makes rock chopping pretty difficult. I am open and flexible to ideas/criticism regarding this mindset - would hate to miss out on a great knife just because I couldn't adapt to a different cutting style.
What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
I enjoy both of them in their own way, but both are lacking in many departments. The F&F of the Yoshihiro is decent, but it's too light and not quite tall enough for me. The NWKW 9" has a bit more heft and I like the profile, but working with the S35VN has been meh for me. The grinds on both knives leave a lot to be desired - both are rather thick BTE and yet somehow feel daintier than I'd like.
Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Honestly my intention is to favor performance over aesthetics in almost all regards. I'd rather a knife have better food release (less stiction?) than have a super cool finish.
Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
All of my desires regarding F&F aspects, including handle, rounding of the spine, etc. are geared towards comfort during all-day use. I don't really care about the aesthetic, but I would like it to be comfortable to grip and use for long periods of time.
Geometry/Specifications:
Though I've yet to own a knife like this, I think I'm looking for something that is decently thin BTE but has enough heft to it that it is just starting to get that feeling of "falling" through food. Not a true workhorse grind, but one that, despite it's cutting performance, FEELS like it doesn't have to be babied.
Theoretically between 3.5-5mm spine thickness at the heel, and no less than 50mm height at the heel.
I honestly do not know much about types of grinds - from what I've read it seems like a Convex, Wide-Bevel, or even S-Grind could all be desirable for different reasons. I would love to hear opinions on what these different grinds bring to the table and see different recommendations with different grinds, if anyone feels that it's warranted.
Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
I do not currently possess the skills to thin a knife, reprofile, re-finish, round a choil or spine, etc. I DO possess the skills to get the knife sharp on the stones, though. So while I don't need it to be super sharp OOTB, I do not want to have to thin it or reprofile it, I'd rather it come the way that I want it. That's not to say I don't want to learn how to do those things, just don't feel ready to experiment quite yet.
In regards to performance, again, I'd like it to have outstanding cutting performance - ideally a good balance between razor sharpness but also solid food release. I know a lot of that has to do with the grind, thinness behind the edge vs convexity for food release (PLEASE STOP ME IF I'M SPOUTING BS, I'M NEW TO THIS). Ideally I'd like to have a balance between both.
Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Right now, my routine is to sharpen once per week. I do not need the knife to stay SCREAMING sharp for the entire work week. I would however, like a knife that can stay serviceably (above-average) sharp for the duration of the week, with stropping maintenance as necessary.
KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Wood at home, probably synthetic at work.
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes
If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
I am interested in improving regardless, I think I can get a very very sharp edge, but I feel like the durability of my edges are not great. Does not feel like my knives stay screaming sharp for more than a few knife projects.
Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes. I currently own and use in tandem: SG500, King 1000/6000, Naniwa Chosera 3000, Naniwa Snow White 8000
