Comparison of 240mm laser gyutos

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JedPhillips

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I'm looking to buy a 240mm laser gyuto, and the three that have risen to the top are:

Kobayashi SG2 Gyuto ($300)
Shibata Kashima R2 ($250)
Konosuke HD2 ($340)

The specs on these are relatively similar, the Kobayashi is the heaviest at 166g, the Shibata is lightest at 152, and all have similar spine thickness and heights.

Has anyone had any experience with these knives, or with the alloys (SG2, R2, HD2)? Do any of them do something better or worse (or differently) than the others? What, if anything, makes the Konosuke a $100 higher price point (apart just from its popularity)?

And are there any other knives I'm not considering that I should add to this list? (<$400 price point) I really only use these for veggie prep, hence the focus on a laser. My current go-to is an Ashi Ginga 210 gyuto (Swedish monosteel). I quite like it (I also have the veggie cleaver) but I'm just looking for something with a bit more heft and a longer profile. I also have a Goko Hamono White 1 #240mm, which for whatever reason I'm just not drawn to, in part because the White #1 can be a bit tedious to maintain.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome!
 
I've not tried the 240, but have had a Kobayashi 210 gyuto and 170 santoku in the past. From various postings I've seen around here and reddit when I was originally researching, it seemed Kobayashi was a little more stiff than Shibata and felt a bit more confident to users. Will let others chime in with facts and personal experiences, but here are the choils of my Kobayashis. I just don't like lasers I found, but the red lacquer handle on the gyuto was gorgeous. I held on to it for a good long while simply because I liked to look at it on the rack.

Gyuto
20221127_154245.jpg


Santoku
20221009_130406.jpg
 
I've tried a smaller Shibata and smaller Kobayashi. The Shibata was insanely thin and lacked convexity for my tastes. The Kobayashi is underrated, it had fantastic convexity and cut just beautifully. Both knives had very good fit and finish however I didn't enjoy the 7-sided red handle you sometimes see on the Kobayashi. Have not had a chance to try an HD2 however between the other two, the Kobayashi is my pick and the 240 Gyuto comes with more height compared to the others.
 
You're paying 100 bucks more for the Konosuke name. ;)
It often gets mentioned in the same breath as Ashi (they may or may not be the OEM for them), so if you're looking for something that's different in style I don't think it'd be the ticket. It shares characteristics with Ashi; runs 10mm short, somewhat on the short side.

Personally I prefer my monosteel lasers over my sanmai lasers; they feel a bit less dampened and have more direct feedback. Also just feel more 'solid'.
 
I've a 240 kobayashi and yes, it feels quite confident due to the extra heft. I can't comment on the others but if you got a kobayashi I suspect you wouldn't look back or second guess your choice.

I agree that the monosteel ashi may feel more "solid" in its confident feeling but the kobayashi is a more subtle kind of confidence in that it feels hardier in use than it looks. My ashi 180mm has a bit more of a cutting feel to it due to the convexity but my kobayashi gives less feedback on food due to its thinner grind - like I feel the knife contacting the board more than I feel it contacting the ingredient if that makes sense.
 
I had a Shibata bunka that was a great knife. At the time I had a few others that cut very similarly - Yoshikane, Yu Kurosaki, Myojin, and Wakui (nakiri). I ended up selling the Shibata because the spine was just a bit too thin and the super light weight made it feel kinda like a toy.

Of those I still have the Myojin, Yoshikane and Wakui, if that tells you anything. I definitely recommend those three highly in their price range.

If you love lasers then obviously get a laser. Alternatively, if you’d like to try something from the Western world that’s laser-adjacent but with a different feel, then consider Bjorn Birgersson or Andrei Markin. Those two have a stiffer, more robust feel than typical lasers. The Markin is like a heavy midweight in weight, but very thin along the blade road and always surprises me how easily it cuts through food.

@MSicardCutlery on this forum also makes straight-up lasers as well; i don’t have one but he has a strong fan base here.
 
I've used the kono hd2 and several shibata lasers. Much of what's already been said matches with my experience.

The shibata is very thin with minimal room for convexity. The fit and finish is very good with perfectly polished spine and choil out of the box, and handle fit has been spot on for all of my examples. The blade is finished with a vertical hairline, so stuff does tend to stick to it. I ended up polishing mine to a kasumi finish and that issue went away completely.

Thr kono HD is very very similar to the ashi gyutos. Heavily right hand biased on mine, so you're able to get some additional convexity despite the thin blade. The steel however is semi stainless, not full stainless, so you will get some patina unlike with sg2. I think it also had a Machi gap, which I hate, but that's a personal preference. It can be changed by removing and reinstalling the handle, which I want to say is attached with hot glue, but can't say for certain since I have not actually removed it from this particular knife. And I agree that you are also paying a hefty premium for the konosuke name, whether it's worth the price is up to you.

Personally, if you're paying in the realm of 350, I'd go with a myojin sg2. Better grind, better finish, and equally laser performance. My myojins have held the top spot for stainless gyuto in my rotation for several years now (currently have the 180, 210 and 240). Here's my 210.
PXL_20231204_214804109.jpg
 
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Delat said:
Of those I still have the Myojin, Yoshikane and Wakui, if that tells you anything. I definitely recommend those three highly in their price range.

or Andrei Markin. Those two have a stiffer, more robust feel than typical lasers. The Markin is like a heavy midweight in weight, but very thin along the blade road and always surprises me how easily it cuts through food.
Click to expand...
1. Get one of these and be done. I think the Yoshis have better food release but are a little more robust and the myojin feels like cutting clouds.
2. Where does one get a Markin these days? I just emailed him and he said he can't get anything to the states and we can't get funds to him. I asked him if he could use a middleman in Latvia, waiting to find out. Russian knives and cuban cigars.
 
If I were looking for another laser, I would go with one of the original three.

Gesshin Ginga. (JKI)
Suisin IH (Korin)
Tadasuna INOX (A Frame)

Hard to pick a "best of", I've had all three and liked them a lot. Still have a Suisin in the block.

Had the Kono HD2, light and nimble but would not call it a laser.
 
pitted_soul said:
1. Get one of these and be done. I think the Yoshis have better food release but are a little more robust and the myojin feels like cutting clouds.
2. Where does one get a Markin these days? I just emailed him and he said he can't get anything to the states and we can't get funds to him. I asked him if he could use a middleman in Latvia, waiting to find out. Russian knives and cuban cigars.
Click to expand...

Bummer, I thought I'd seen another forum member say that Markin had figured out a way to do a transaction. I guess they're limited to BST for now then.
 
currently i regularly switch between a nihei (yoshikane-ish), a myojin, and a kobayashi.
all 240.

very different knives that compliment each other.
i'm not looking fo a laser beyond the kobayashi. i love it.
but if you're into ghosting through food, a thin-spine laser is not the only solution. other geometries do that as well – as myojin's grinds and yoshi-style knives prove.

fwiw, i find shibatas too feathery (i have not used one over a longer time period though), but i do like the shorter bunkas.

166g is still a really light 240mm knife. do you need lighter? the only thing that sometimes makes the kobayashi my second choice (apart from its laser geometry) is its curved profile. nothing wrong at all (!), but sometimes i prefer a longer flat spot on the blade.

.
 
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Since you are in the UK i would suggest Michael from Knot Handcrafted.
His knives are about midweights but through their convex grind they perform better on vegetables than anything i had so far.
I ordered a bigger nakiri and asked for performance through denser vegetables especially.
Should be within budget and he offers a nice choice of steels depending on if you want to go for stainless, stainless clad or carbon.
 
Slightly heftier laser you say?

Wakui Kasumi, and En Ginsanko, or the Myojin rec’d above would be my picks. Great movement through food, but with a bit more booty to it than your standard laser.
 
I've used Shibata and Konosuke (and Ashi). Shibata is thinner and more delicate. The Konosuke is a better all around knife, a little more robust, but not as laser-y. Edgeholding is good but not as good. I think Ashi is more substantial than the HD2, which, in turn, is more substantial than Shibata.
 
I have both a Kobayashi 240 gyuto and a Kono HD2 270 gyuto (which is pretty close in length to most 240s). Very similar knives, both outstanding and both total fun to use. I would probably classify the HD2 as a little (just a tiny bit) bit more stout than the Kobayashi, and the Kobayashi is (to me) the more 'lasery' of the pair.

I'd probably give the overall edge (no pun intended) to the Kobayashi, but both are sweet knives with very similar edge retention.
 
I've had a Shibata 240mm that was good, but ended up not being my kind of knife. It got too light and felt too flimsy. But it was super thin. Not saying it actually WAS flimsy, but it felt like it. Subjective!

Now I have a Yoshikane 240mm SKD that has the same kind of super thin edge and cutting feel, but due to the thicker spine and stiffer blade it doesn't feel flimsy at all - but still with the super thin edge it is quite delicate. Personally I like it a lot more than the Shibata I had.

Not a direct comparsion, but I also have a Kobayashi 150mm petty which I really like for citrus and smaller tasks as it's stainless. Feels every bit as thin as the Shibata, but the handles are much nicer to look at and to hold.

The Shibatas tend to be flatter in the profile than Kobayashi, at least with the R2 gyutos, while the Yoshikanes are very flat. I like that, but again - subjective!
 
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