Small gyuto profiles/ergonomics

[timebard]

I have a custom order coming up for a smaller gyuto (probably 190-195mm) and am realizing I have much less idea of what I like in this length than proper sized ones, so I'm consulting the hivemind here. What's your preference or favorite examples for blade shape, profile, and handle on smaller (<200mm) gyuto/tall petty/mini-chef type knives? Are there design choices you don't like in bigger knives but do like in smaller ones?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I like shorter knives but generally speaking, I find I like in them what I find attractive in longer knives. I like a flatter profile and forward balance. But, unlike longer knives, I'm not overly fond of heavier grinds in the shorter lengths. It can be thick in the spine so long as it has good taper and isn't too heavy. Since they are already shorter, I like to lean into the wieldiness of them.

In the gyuto class I tend to like something in the 45-50mm range for height, or there abouts according to the blade length.

You're not going to get as much height for rocking so I tend to not put too much value in upswept tips. The santoku-esque profile of the Watanabe (Toyama) Pro 180 gyuto is a very effective design.

 

[jacobwilder5]

I’ve gravitated to WH style for larger gyutos but like a thinner grind and finer tip for smaller ones. My larger gyutos I prefer carbon/carbon clad but lean stainless/semi stainless for smaller due to using it regularly for cutting citrus.

 

[Choppin]

With longer gyutos I like a traditional profile with some tip upswing, convex bevels, workhorsy by the heel but tapering nicely to a thin tip.

But with smaller gyutos I’d keep it simple. Flatish, santoku-esque profile @HumbleHomeCook mentioned. Not too workhorsy - midweight or thin grind is more versatile.

~47mm tall? 3mm spine at the handle and a gentle taper, keeping the stiffness.

Some profile ideas below (also, Watanabe 180 which is great).

https://carbonknifeco.com/products/masakane-vintage-sk-gyuto-195mm-pakka-handle-no-bolster
https://knifejapan.com/ikenami-hamono-bannou-180mm-shirogami-1/

 

[yummycrackers]

Just to reiterate what several people above have said, with shorter santokus/bunkas, I generally prefer flatter profiles (because you don't have the same sweet spot as on a longer blade) and thinner grinds to make them as manoeuvrable as possible. The ones that I've used the most have been a Makoto and a Yoshikane from JNS. Both quite thin, both quite flat.

 

[Choppin]

Another different template is a sort of Sakai 210 gyuto with shorter heel. 190-195mm long and 40-43mm tall. I find it very useful - more than enough height for board work but also great as a small slicer / long petty/utility.

 

[blokey]

BTW Harner might have a M4 mini chef available because someone decided to go for a different model…

 

[Delat]

I really like gyutos/pettys in the 180 - 200mm range and my preferences are similar to those mentioned above - flatter profile, very thin grind although with a spine that’s thick enough to be comfortable and provide stiffness (e.g. >3mm at the choir, >2mm midway).

I think height depends on the height of your cutting surface - lower cutting surfaces probably benefit from a taller, more curved profile due to arm mechanics, and higher surfaces lend themselves to a lower, flatter profile. Anyway, my Myojin is 180x45 and feels more like a petty for small quick tasks. My Hyde is about 195x56 and feels much more substantial and general-purpose.

These smaller knives don’t have the length to provide the weight of larger workhorses, and you’re probably not tackling cabbage or butternut squash with a 180, so a thin grind makes more sense imho. Less force, less effort, and short quick jobs with a few tomatoes and onions. Versus longer sessions where more length and weight would bring more benefit.

 

[fatboylim]

Just to add another flavour.

There are 3 sizes with different profiles:
1. Long slicer with some convex grind 240mm to 270mm
2. Tall stiff lazer for powering through hard veg e.g. TF Denka 210mm Gyuto or a thin and stiff slicing cleaver.
3. Workhorse small Gyuto 180mm with extreme distal taper. 1mm tip for fine work, and 3mm heel for food release e.g. Potatoes. It is too short to be a power chopper so it works well for softer vegetables and proteins. My kiyoshi Kato 180mm Gyuto was an eye opener. Before this I only had lazer 180mm gyutos! Only use this grind for softer produce.

For more versatility go lazer and stiff!

Ps: for a custom knife I would go extreme distal taper as these are rare. Otherwise a lazer is pretty easy to find in a 180mm Gyuto. But really depends on your other knives; and the purpose this 180mm Gyuto fulfils.

 

[fatboylim]

I would almost describe the Kiyoshi Kato 180mm Gyuto as a
Workhouse convexity with an evenly thinning distal taper to a 1mm thin tip for the last 2 inches!

 

[mpier]

I’ve tried a few but the 180 Yoshikane kinda hit the sweet spot for me 45mm height 3.5mm+ out of the handle, nice flat spot, thin grind, nice taper and stainless for the most part

 

[SwampDonkey]

I don't really do in-hand work so my preferences are heavily biased, but I like the taller heel+ shortening towards tip of something like the Munetoshi all-rounder, but with a flatter profile. That way you get the shorter tip for more maneuverability coring a pepper etc but still have a bit of heel height so it doesn't get lost on your lone onion to top a sandwich or something.

I find the Wat Pro 180 profile extremely intriguing though, looks about perfect for a small knife

 

[Matt Jacobs]

on a smaller knife I like it really thin and very general purpose with some height. 190 x 50+ with more a chef than gyuto up turned tip so it rocks if I choose to.
Mainly I want super thin and light. I use them for quick things like adding onion and garlic to a meal so I want a thin tip.

 

[MattPike4President]

I also prefer my small gyuto-ish knives (~180mm) to be as thin as possible and actually like a bit of a shorter profile on something that length. I've got a Gesshin Ginga 180mm that I absolutely love for detailed garnish and in hand work. The height has never bothered me, just cut at the edge of the board if you need some extra clearance.

I had a 180mm Yoshikane santoku for a while that never really made it into my regular rotation. It was just too close to my favorite 210 (Masashi) for me to ever grab it. That said, the coworker I sold it to loves it and uses it nightly on the line.

 

[labor of love]

Never owned a 180mm gyuto but that Mab in BST has me tempted. Anyway like others have mentioned for smaller gyutos I do want the opposite characteristics of typical 240mm-270mm gyutos.
Instead of extra tall more narrow is best IMO, you won’t need much knuckle clearance to dice shallots, or other smaller veg anyway, more narrow profile makes for less potential drag, easier slicing motions too.

 

[chefwp]

The edge length on my Takada '210' is only 190mm and it's 30mm tall, so I consider it my small gyuto. I also use a Mazaki 150mm petty as a small gyuto (about 28mm tall), it definitely has the shape. Both of these small knives are great for small jobs, like just a few shallots to mince, olives or tomatoes to process, and such. Both have very thin tips and are very nimble to use.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I don't use my shorter length knives as specialty or task-specific knives. 165mm-205mm are my primary knives with 165mm seeing the majority of work.

I used 180 gyutos almost exclusively for a period of time. I've just ebbed back into nakiri for more of my work.

I'm down to one 210 gyuto left and it rarely sees service.

So for me, a little height and some more versatility is important on a short gyuto.

 

[labor of love]

I don't use my shorter length knives as specialty or task-specific knives. 165mm-205mm are my primary knives with 165mm seeing the majority of work.

I used 180 gyutos almost exclusively for a period of time. I've just ebbed back into nakiri for more of my work.

I'm down to one 210 gyuto left and it rarely sees service.

So for me, a little height and some more versatility is important on a short gyuto.

What the heck? That’s wild

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

What the heck? That’s wild

As a home cook, mostly for two these days, I just don't find myself needing larger knives that often. A 180 can handle a lot including cabbage heads. In those cases when I need more length, which isn't that often, I just grab the 240 suji. I don't need to chop a ton of veg all at once. I'm just not usually in that much of a hurry.

I tested a number of 210's and they were all good. I just like shorter knives and they meet my needs. If my circumstances were different then my preferences might be as well.

 

[SwampDonkey]

What the heck? That’s wild

And here is my ******* using a 240 to fine dice a shallot or single clove of garlic

 

[Choppin]

As a home cook, mostly for two these days, I just don't find myself needing larger knives that often. A 180 can handle a lot including cabbage heads. In those cases when I need more length, which isn't that often, I just grab the 240 suji. I don't need to chop a ton of veg all at once. I'm just not usually in that much of a hurry.

I tested a number of 210's and they were all good. I just like shorter knives and they meet my needs. If my circumstances were different then my preferences might be as well.

Yeah I can relate. I cook for 1-2 people often and a 165 nakiri/santoku or a 180 gyuto is my weapon of choice. This + a 225 suji and a sabaki is all I need.

For larger prep I like my 240-260 gyutos, to work quicker. I barely use 210 gyutos these days as it feels like a weird mid spot.

 

[AT5760]

I feel like 195 is still plenty of length for a gyutoesque profile. At the sub 175 range, I definitely like a low tip and flatter profile. Yes to thin.

 

[labor of love]

The forum mob at one point argued the best size knife was the one that felt most comfortable in the user’s hand against the notion of sizing up or down in size should coordinate with the size of the product one is cutting but I’ve always sided with the latter belief

 

[M1k3]

And here is my ******* using a 240 to fine dice a shallot or single clove of garlic

I do it with a 270 regularly

 

[stringer]

I have never found any good use for a sub 240 gyuto shaped knife. For short knives I prefer a nakiri for board work and a sujipetty for slicing and/or tip work. I have no use case for a very short knife wearing a very high heel. Worst of both worlds.

 

[labor of love]

I could dice a shallot with a 360mm suji. But I won’t.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Definitely fully converted to nakiri gang for smaller knives, but didn't want to derail completely with that particular crusade. March approaches soon enough.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Definitely fully converted to nakiri gang for smaller knives, but didn't want to derail completely with that particular crusade. March approaches soon enough.

 

[MowgFace]

180 gang!

Shigeki Blue #2 187/47
Shigeki Ginsan 190/47
Shihan A2 183/49

For shorty Gyutos I prefer flattish profiles, with a tip at least inline with the bottom of the handle to a bit lower. I’m a blade forward guy so same goes for these

The Blue dammy was my favorite until I custom ordered the Shihan. They are both beefy at the spine with some nice taper.

My wife has adopted the Shigeki blue as her day to day workhorse.

 

[Blademaster]

Versatile Gyuto for push and rocking cutting motions. The spine profile is around 75% straight, around two-thirds of the edge profile is curved very gently, then curves more aggressively up to the tip. The tip height is around 40-50% of the blade height (heel to spine).